PDA

View Full Version : Making your own pseudo-Oland tool



rsser
17th September 2008, 04:01 PM
Skew's the guru here so I hesitate where angels have trod with their moccas.

...

When I showed Jeff how it worked he asked 'where can I buy one?'. Frankly, I've not seem 'em on sale cos it seems turners make their own.

Actually I did buy one at the old Melb ww fest run by clubs a few years ago. Make by Eltham or was it Eildon turners. As I looked at it with a view to knocking one up for Jeff the quality jumped out at me. I'd say the square mounting shaft had been turned on a metal lathe cos the tang must be round. That's pic no. 1 and 2.

So here's one of the cheapest and neatest tools you can make. I just used 1/2" bright steel rod from the local steel supplies place. The work on mine is not v. pretty as I'm a ham-fisted metal worker but the things perform fine.

I did two for Jeff one of which will find a home in his spare Ci1 rougher handle.

The first tip is 1/4" square HSS ground as a scraper. This is held in with a 4mm Allen head screw as again the box for grub screws in this size was empty (sorry Scooter!). This makes the bit easy to remove to sharpen or replace. And you have the option of grinding the other end straight as a scraping edge at an angle of 87 or 88 degrees (in plan view) for the inside of a square bottom pencil jar or lidded box. Pics 5 & 6.

The second is 5/16" round bar ground with a flat on the top and a scraper bevel. That's glued in with CA. It's a bit hit and miss sharpening this but if you have a grinder platform that's too deep fore and aft but you can always clamp a bit of wood packing onto it so just the scraper rod is supported. Otherwise you just heat it up in boiling water and pull the rod out. Pics 3 & 4.

All up the steel was only about 20 bucks. The HSS pieces I used were leftovers so the calculation of cost is pro rata.

The only special gear needed was a drill press and a tap set.

Some other points:

The rod could in fact be fixed with a grub screw provided a small flat were ground on the embedded shaft. Thanks to the poster on an earlier thread who put me on to this.

The drill press work is easier to get accurate if you have a quality vice with V's ground in one jaw to hold the rod.

Now I call these pseudo Oland tools as I think the real ones were designed to cut with the bevel rubbing. Google on Darrell Feltmate's site for lots more info. These here are scrapers and are good for small end-grain hollowing so long as you keep a fresh burr.

Now I hope the angel might descend and follow this with some more tips for using them. (... as my end grain work is occasional and usually big so I go for a Proforme hollower. My pencil jars are straight sided and bottomed so a heavy straight edged scraper with the edge at about 87 degrees to the shaft is best but that's another story and has been told earlier).

I hope this will inspire folk to visit their local industrial supplies place and get the satisfaction of making something for themselves that's schmick and cheap.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
17th September 2008, 05:50 PM
Thanks for the ego booster Ern, but Rodent is the bloke who got me started on 'em. :D

Just a couple of other minor hints:

If you sharpen both ends of the HSS bit it's a good idea to poke a small bit of rubber, wood, etc. inside the end of the bar to act as a buffer.

Square HSS stock will fit inside a suitably sized round hole quite nicely; the grub screw will hold it in position. So, within reason, you can use whatever HSS bits you have at hand.

An alternative bar can be made by gluing (I recommend expanding foam glue... I forget it's "proper" name. :-) a square rod inside a square tube. Sadly, you can only find matching ID & OD in imperial stock. (ie. happy hunting!) Square tube is too thin for a grub-screw, but it's a simple matter to braze a nut on the outside.


FWIW, I use the rounded profile in scraper mode for hogging out end-grain very, very quickly. Bevel rubbing it gives a cleaner cut for finishing, but can be difficult to finesse around tight curves.

hughie
17th September 2008, 06:08 PM
Ern,

Nice one. :2tsup: have built a few mainly using round stock HSS, only because I have a fair amount of it. But square is the better option as you get sharp edges along the length. Then you only need to sharpen the end. With the round I have to grind alot more steel away to get the same effect.

I agree with Skews comments re grub screws, used 20mm round bar [see pics].Never tried tube too much hassle with wall thickness.

I like the idea of the rubber stop inside the bar for double ended tools, good tip :2tsup:

rsser
17th September 2008, 06:12 PM
Ah, many thanks.

Re tip no 1, will find a bit of neoprene to pack the socket bottom.

Re matching imperial squares, yeah, they think I'm peculiar already at the local steel supplies place.

Jeff ... hope you're reading this.

I glued the 5/16" rod into the shaft but didn't have the preferred Selley's Superglue type - shock resistant, good for metal, blah blah - so used 5 min epoxy. Same deal; just heat it up to remove the bit.

Jeff, why not bring down an outside shaped lidded box and with the tutoring talent down at 's for the turn-on I reckon you'll come back stoked about what one of these puppies can do with hollowing.

Cliff Rogers
17th September 2008, 06:13 PM
Watching.

rsser
17th September 2008, 06:18 PM
Damn, Hughie types quicker than me ... so read mine b4 his ;-}

Yeah, Jeff's spare handle has a half inch socket (non-adjustable) so that limited the design choices. Well, he gets to try the two bits and if the shafts just dropped into the handle do turn in use a T-bar style of 2ndary handle using vise grips should sort it.

Hmm, that's a neat setup you have there.

Skew ChiDAMN!!
17th September 2008, 06:31 PM
Something else I've been wanting to try is to make one with the bar drilled out to around 12mm. That'll take an 8mm sq. HSS bit (I think - I really should double-check the maths) and it's a simple matter to turn brass/copper collets to fit smaller stock.

Oh... and one other thing. When using larger dia. round bars, such as 20+ mm, it's a good idea to bevel/round over the end edge so that it doesn't mar the timber in case of accidental contact. I've a big beast that works well if I only have around 8mm of the HSS tip exposed and I rub the bevel of the bar when doing final cuts!

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=20408&d=1141792194

rsser
17th September 2008, 06:57 PM
Yoiks!

You're a braver man than me Gunga Din.

joe greiner
17th September 2008, 10:40 PM
I'm pretty sure I mentioned this in another thread about Oland tools, but can't find it now, of course: Best to drill and tap for the grub screw, then drill for the cutter. Otherwise, the walls flex while tapping so as to encourage tap breakage - learned the hard way. Threading all the way through allows switching the grub screw to the other side when/if the threads become hosed.

For the offset cutter a little like hughie's first pic (except for grub screw orientation), I use a small vise-grip pliers for a torque control handle. Easy to relocate along the shank.

'pseudo' seems like splitting hairs to me regarding scraping vs bevel rubbing. IIRC, Oland intended these to be DIY for those interested.

Just in case it isn't obvious, sharpening both ends of the cutter reduces the number of trips to the grinder. I use a short piece of shank to hold the cutter for sharpening (reduces the amount of space needed for swinging); when not sharpening, I store the Allen screw in the short shank so it's easier to find. (Flat head machine screw in the short shank).

Joe

rsser
18th September 2008, 08:10 AM
Thanks Joe. Yes, I recall your post on this.

As it happens my drill press shaft is sloppy and the hole in the mounting shaft usually ends up uncentred. Not a good look but in this case it left enough meat on the thick side to do a good tapped hole.

As for 'cutting' vs scraping with this kind of tool, I do think it's more than hair splitting as the applications, technique and finish vary.

oldiephred
18th September 2008, 09:08 AM
This type of tool is the only thing I use but the purists who spend mega$ for high end tools scowl at them for some reason. I don't understand how a $150 tool can work any better just because it has a label attached. I can purchase the square HSS tool bits for $2.85 each and oil hardening 12mm drill rod for $11.00 per 1M length. I use fish tank tubing for handles just to make it a bit larger.
I'm going to steal a couple of the ideas shown here.:B

Cliff Rogers
18th September 2008, 10:00 AM
.... I don't understand how a $150 tool can work any better just because it has a label attached. ....

I agree with most of what you said except this bit.

There is something about my Henry Taylor HS1 Super Flute HS1 that makes it better than tools the same shape made by somebody else at half the price. :shrug:

It might be superstitious but I also reckon that the one I bought about 16 years ago is better than the one I bought last year. :think:

There is something different in the steel.

I have also noticed the same thing with Sorby steel, the older stuff is better.

rsser
18th September 2008, 03:09 PM
And IMO a bowl gouge is a far better tool for bowl turning than a scraper.

rsser
19th September 2008, 01:50 PM
So here's one of the shafts fitted to Jeff's spare Rougher handle.

To give him a chance to switch between the two tools I've fitted grub screws through the ferrule on both sides, following Joe's advice to drill right through in one go. The screws only sit in the wood (I couldn't source a length that would also sit in the ferrule without an ugly overhang) which I reinforced with several applications of Loktite. That also means the screws shouldn't disappear into the shavings.

The Rougher handle btw is a very nicely finished bit of kit. This one's the dyed Maple.

(Added: the fixing method described here is only meant to be temp, til Jeff decides which tool he prefers. I'm not sure how long it would last. The socket is 75mm deep, the wood is presumably Maple, but at some point the forces will open up the socket. Any case, when Jeff's made his choice he can just epoxy the shaft in.)

jefferson
19th September 2008, 06:07 PM
The pressure appears to be on. Will a novice turner like me measure up? I hope so.

Ern is bringing the new play things to the next turn-on, oops, mini-turnfest, so I guess I'd better bring some good and not-so-good blanks down to turn. Some unseasoned 4 by 4 redgum, plus some rock hard stuff. And maybe some soft pine to get started.

I am of course hoping that some of the leading hands give me a fair demonstration first on end-grain hollowing. Starting of course with Ern, followed by and DJ.

Failing that, I guess I'll send some lumps spinning out of the chuck. Lord knows I'm getting good at it.

Aside from some trepidation, really looking forward to the new tools! It's such a shame that Ern likes a decent red, as there's not much in the way of decent wineries up this way. At least if I look north!

Jeff

rsser
19th September 2008, 07:19 PM
No drama Jeff.

I've got some lumps of blackwood and Norfolk pine that we can play with.

Cliff Rogers
19th September 2008, 10:38 PM
.... Will a novice turner like me measure up? .....

Everybody... Cook, Einstein, George Lucus, Bill Gates... everybody was a novice at one stage. :shrug:

oldiephred
20th September 2008, 10:12 AM
I agree with most of what you said except this bit.

Not having tried those more expensive tools I really should not have commented on their value. Hope I did not irritate too much.

OGYT
21st September 2008, 11:27 AM
To add just a tip: (If you're using a round tool shaft) After drilling the hole for the cutter, heat and bend the shaft to make you a swan-neck cutter. I have three different bends that I use for undercutting the inside on hollowforms. No torque to speak of, if the cutting tip is in line with the straight part of the shaft.
Good thread!

rsser
21st September 2008, 03:02 PM
Thanks Al.

What do you use to heat the shaft?