chisels

[keen1880]

Does anyone know about, or used, cryogenic treated chisels? They have been talked abour and tested with positive results in English woodturning mags for a number of years, but don't seem to be available in Oz. They are supposed to hold their edge very well at minimal extra cost over HSS. Henry Taylor has a Kryo range and others make them too, in particular Thompson Lathe Tools in the USA at surprisingly attractive prices. the improvement over HSS in reputed to be sort of like the improvement of HSS over carbon steel.
Any ideas?

[Grumpy John]

Does anyone know about, or used, cryogenic treated chisels? They have been talked abour and tested with positive results in English woodturning mags for a number of years, but don't seem to be available in Oz. They are supposed to hold their edge very well at minimal extra cost over HSS. Henry Taylor has a Kryo range and others make them too, in particular Thompson Lathe Tools in the USA at surprisingly attractive prices. the improvement over HSS in reputed to be sort of like the improvement of HSS over carbon steel.
Any ideas?

Over to you Ern :D

[Rum Pig]

I can remember reading a review on them some time ago I will have to go through my mags and see if I can find it. From what I can remember they did live up to the clams of the longer lasting edge but no enough to justify the cost. I will see if I can find this review.
I personally have not had any experience with them I still buy the cheapies as I'm still learning to grind properly:)

[OGYT]

A man named John Lucas did a test of Thompson's Tools. He sharpened them like his own, then honed the edge. He then turned a Brass Ferrule, a Brass Handle, and a wooden Handle, maybe not necessarily in that order, but all without needing to resharpen the gouge.
I bought four of them. I find that they all hold an edge much longer than my Pro PM and Pinnacle Bowl Gouges. They are my go-to tools when I'm turning bowls or roughing a blank.

[Ed Reiss]

"M-2 Henry Taylor Kyro tools undergo a state-of-the-art cyrogenic treatment in which they are subjected to temperatures below -300 degrees farenheit. the process results in increased wear resistance and durability 3-6 times that of heat treated M-2" excerpt from woodturnerscatalog.com

Henry Taylor also makes signature Kyro tools for Richard Raffan.

Check out www.woodturnerscatalog.com

[robutacion]

A man named John Lucas did a test of Thompson's Tools. He sharpened them like his own, then honed the edge. He then turned a Brass Ferrule, a Brass Handle, and a wooden Handle, maybe not necessarily in that order, but all without needing to resharpen the gouge.
I bought four of them. I find that they all hold an edge much longer than my Pro PM and Pinnacle Bowl Gouges. They are my go-to tools when I'm turning bowls or roughing a blank.

Hi OGYT,
Could I/we have a pic of this "go-to" tool of yours?
Thanks

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[rsser]

The Thompson tools are cryo treated, and the guy says it works better if the treatment is between the 2 or 3 temperings he does. And yes, his tools look like darn good value.

As for tests, I've seen one publication on research in the US which shows no advantage. I think I have a scan of this report and can email it to you if you wish.

Another, anecdotal, report in the UK mag Woodturning was more favorable. And I'm a fan of anecdotes in the course of a few ales but not otherwise.

The Glaser tools made in the US are now cryo treated but I've no data on their effectiveness.

[keen1880]

thanks for the responses.
I read a test of Henry Taylor Kryo tools in Woodturning and my recollection is that it was favourable, but conservatively so.
I was hoping someone had used them on some Australian wood to give them a "proper" test as my experience, although limited is that some tests are done on euro woods which are a bit different to ours.
The prices are attractive enough if the tools are as good as they say, but it would be nice to see them before committing. Lots of Woodies are touchy feely when it comes to tools and like to see before they buy.
The Working with Wood shows should I think, be looking for these types of products to demonstrate to show enthusiasts what is around. At the Canberra Show the only turning tools available were McJing and P&N which is a bit poor.
keen1880

[OGYT]

QUOTE Hi OGYT, Could I/we have a pic of this "go-to" tool of yours?
Thanks, Cheers RBTCO

I'll try to get a pic posted tomorrow sometime. Cheers, Al<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[rsser]

Keen, a proper test is a helluva lot of work. The makers typically show no interest in doing it, or if they do in publishing the results beyond anything vague like 'lasts x times longer than ... '.

The best material out there on testing ww tool steel and sharpening is Brent Beach's site on (mainly) plane blades. Do a google.

Coincidentally, when he starting publishing his results some blade makers changed their advertising :rolleyes:

So anyway, going by feel is fine and the HT Kryo are not that much dearer than their M2.

Value for money is a whole different question of course; perhaps its not so critical for those of us who'll take years to wear a gouge down to nothing.

[Capt.Mike]

I do not own any of Harold And Saxons Cryo chisels but have handled them and would very much like to ,my impression of them as a company is a good bunch to deal with with a genuine interest in what they produce
http://www.haroldandsaxon.com/product_range.htm

[OGYT]

Hi OGYT,
Could I/we have a pic of this "go-to" tool of yours?
Thanks, Cheers, RBTCO

Here's a shot of my Thompson Kryo Gouges. Any time I'm roughing out, or turning a large bowl, these are my go-to tools. I use the little detail gouge on smaller stuff like finials and just general detail work.
Top to Bottom:
3/8" Detail Gouge
1/2" V Flute
5/8" V Flute
1/2" U Flute
5/8" U Flute (Main Roughout tool).

[Toolin Around]

Up til a few years ago the jury was out on cryo treatment. Now though it has been confirmed with a number of studies that it does work to increase wear resistance.

It's a finicky process though and the result can vary widely as a result. Without knowing the process employed by the manufacturer you'll not know if you have tools that will have the most thorough treatment possible as every step of the process and it's timing as to when the cryo is applied is important. You'll have to go by word of mouth for the most part as to whether you're getting your moneys worth. As my sig says Your Mileage May Vary.

[rsser]

Maybe not toolin:

see http://www.morewoodturning.net/Tool%20Wear%20Testing%20by%20Jim%20Staley.pdf

(Correction: elsewhere I posted that Jim Staley could not get steel content data from the maker; in fact it was blade sharpening methods he could not obtain from the blade manufacturer. Apologies.)