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badgaz
26th October 2008, 10:46 PM
Howdy guys

In an effort to improve my situation I've decided to build a purpose made lathe bench.
I have this idea of a very minimalist approach; narrow, no drawers, shelves, extensions etc.
I have a good amount of Aussie hard wood beams about 50mm x 190mm in 2m lengths. This stuff is HEAVY.
I have attached my first sketch and would like some further direction from the learned gentlemen of this forum before creating great clouds of dust, sweat and harsh language in my shed.
I've incorporated through-bolt joints (don't know the right term but the drawing shows what I mean). I'm not sure what the carriage bolt tension on the endgrain may do to the beams over time but I was also going for the cool look as well. However, if it's not to be, so be it.
Is this idea ill advised? Will this method support the weight of the cross beams or should I incorporate additional supports?

My aim is to have a bench that won't budge in a storm but have it designed for knock down in case I have to move it to make way for all the other machines I want but can't afford...yet.

Any thoughts?

Regards

Gazza

thefixer
26th October 2008, 11:06 PM
G'day Badgaz

My first lathe bench was made from timber, not quite as heavy as the stuff you've got though. But it didn't matter how many bolts and braces I put into it I still got unwanted vibrations in the lathe. I eventually welded one up from some steel I found lying around and the difference was remarkable. The lathe is now very steady and no vibrations except when it is my own doing due to lack of experience. :( Anyway give it a go with what you've got and see how it goes. Just one tip, make the ends of the bench more of an "A" frame for more stability.

Cheers
Shorty

joe greiner
27th October 2008, 12:53 AM
Alignment rigidity would be enhanced by using shallow dadoes or rebates at all joints.

Carriage bolts are tightened only by turning the nut with a washer at the nut. Not much fun according to your detail. It would be better to use conventional hex or square head bolts with washers at both the outboard head (for turning) and the nut (for load distribution). Tee nuts can also be used in lieu of the nuts and washers in the holes; this also minimises the amount of loose parts in disassembly.

Timber is strongest and stiffest in end loading, weakest and softest across the grain. In general, recommended end distance is about 7 times the hole diameter for softwoods and 5 times for hardwood; edge distances are 1.5 times the hole diameter. These ratios can also be used for the bed stock; otherwise, all-thread will have to be embedded in slots of a laminated plank, with outboard nuts and washers.

Most of the rigidity derives from the bed stock and the soffit beam combined. Fitting the foot board may need some fine tuning or packing the dadoes in the verticals - better than prying the rest of the bench to conform.

I agree with Shorty, that A-frames would be more stable, but 190mm wide isn't bad, especially since A-frames could introduce more weird joints. If the feet and verticals are not rebated, a triangular piece of sheet metal or plywood can enhance stability.

Joe

Ed Reiss
27th October 2008, 05:12 AM
You've obviously put a lot of thought into the stand, and your on the right track, Bagdaz.

Like Shorty and Joe said, an A frame would give a lot more stability. Something else that provides stability is to actually have the stand attached to the wall behind (provided that the wall is sturdy). Just run a piece of 2x4 horizontally from the stand to the wall and L-bracket in place.

hughie
27th October 2008, 08:19 AM
Hi Gazza,

I fear that the bolts will be hard to keep tight as they will work in the timber. Weight will be your biggest problem..........well not if you do pens. :U Maybe consider gluing the legs and feet together and perhaps turn the bottom shelf to vertical.

Consider a knock down bench built into say three major pieces, rather than all of it, ie legs and lathe bed. Then you can permanently and rigidly build each individual component. Then look at bolt through to hold it together. I agree with Joe about tenons and rebates, maybe consider metal brackets to hold the major pieces to gether.


What do you have in mind to turn? This will dictate some what your lathe stand will look like.

For me I used the 'A' frame type glued and screwed. Lathe bed or base 220mmx75mm Oregon, the rest out of 20mm plywood. The legs are hollow so I can add sand or whatever to the increase the weight.

I know what its like to have minimal space, some of my gear is on wheels ie bandsaw, grinder, bench etc but not the lathe.

badgaz
27th October 2008, 07:24 PM
Thanks guys, much appreciated.

Shorty
I will redesign the feet as it seems to be the weakest part of the design, I am toying with the idea of solid triangular extensions on either side of the uprights instead to suggest the A-frame idea and to act as the anchoring feet, and add weight.

Joe
your advice on distance ratios is gold, thank you. I too thought about rebating the cross beams after I had submitted the first design and that I will do. Good call on hex head bolts, I was aiming for a snag free design but since all of the sharp pointy bits will be outboard, I think it's a sound compromise between form and functionality. Good thing I haven't cut a single beam in anger yet. Rebates will give the neccessary support and if done well should allow me to avoid brackets, brackets and even more brackets.

Ed
if all else fails I can, and will bolt the bench to the floor. It's my shed and I'll make as many holes in it as neccessary to get this lathe stable. Thanks for the encouragement.

Hughie
at the moment my aim is to master spindle turning...handles to start with, 2" stock or smaller. Faceplate turning seems lightyears off and I'm limited to a maximum of 12" bowls when I'm brave enought to venture forth. I will also do pens, but I really like turning with a bit more substance...early days. The sub-assembly set-up is a great idea and I will take that on board. I too thought about turning the bottom board to vertical, it would also allow more foot room and it may end up the way to go. I can already see my chisels stored upright beween the two vertical cross beams whilst I'm working on a blank. Space is not a problem at the moment, my shed can fit two family vehicles in comfortably but they seldom go in as we have a carport. This only gives rise to a desire to fill the empty spaces. I intend to errect the bench close to one of the roller doors so I can take advantage of natural light and ventilation at every opportunity. I can also sweep the sawdust straight out and take the short walk to the garden or the bin to deposit it.

All the best chaps and thanks very much.:2tsup:

Gazza

joe greiner
27th October 2008, 10:51 PM
See if Bunnings, or whatever other fastener supply, has "Acorn Nuts." These can provide the best of both worlds: hex head and round head. In effect, make your own bolts with acorn nut and a short piece of all-thread to engage the nut or T-nut in the hole. Might be somewhat dear, but only need about a dozen or so. To assure purchase of the acorn nut and the all-thread, use an anaerobic adhesive such as LocTite thread locker, or some such name.

Although the grip might weaken over time, the bolts can be snugged occasionally, so wood glue might be more trouble than it's worth.

One other thing: Cut the bottom of the feet inboard to provide two end feet each. Hardly any floor is flat enough to provide full-length bearing. Add a thin piece of rubber at each end foot to accommodate floor irregularity, and loosen and re-tighten the foot to vertical connections to eliminate wobble. Do the same for plywood or metal gussets if used. Upon reflection, if rubber pads are about 7.5-10mm thick, the cutout won't be needed.

Joe

Jim Carroll
28th October 2008, 08:22 AM
Gazza the very first stand I made was the same as the one in your picture. It looked great but was impractible.

I finished putting bracing ply on the ends to stop the top rocking as you are only pivoting from the bottom part.

You need the A frame type construction to stop the head rocking other wise you will feel you are chasing the lathe all the time.

No amount of bolts will stop the rocking as has been mentioned it is timber and evntually the wear and tear will make it flex easily.

Woodwould
28th October 2008, 08:42 AM
I think everyone's first lathe bench is made from timber. Some then go on to make sheetgoods cupboard-type benches, but most seem to progress to owning steel benches in the end. You could save yourself a bit of time, money and heartache now.

If you can weld (or know someone who can) I would recommend making a steel bench with 75mm x 75mm x 5mm SHS legs and 125mm x 75mm x 5mm RHS horizontals.

If you make up some feet with holes in them from 75mm x 8mm flat bar, you could bolt it to the floor for eternity and never experience even a shimmer from your lathe.

OGYT
28th October 2008, 12:06 PM
I made the workbench that Little Vic (VL100) is on from 2x4s on edge, screwed together w/3" wood screws. 9 2xs make it 13.5" (approx 340mm) wide. Each leg is straight 2xs edge to side. Braced by center shelf. Works pretty good for the little lathe, but I can tell you it walks a little if something out of balance is put on it. :)

rsser
28th October 2008, 06:48 PM
As for design, FWIW in my view the front legs should be vertical and there should not be plates extending towards you. Anything else will restrict your movements.

Jim Carroll
28th October 2008, 06:57 PM
Ern I would have to disagree with you there the stand I currrently have my DVRXP on was made with the front side straight and the back slanted. At first I thought this was great as there was no leg in the way but the more you use out of round peices the more it rocks toward you.

I am going to change it so there is a small angle forward to stop the rock. It doesnt need much probably 80-100mm at the foot which wont impede me.

badgaz
28th October 2008, 08:44 PM
Thanks for everyones valuable input.
I've taken all things into consideration and although a metal frame is the preferred option, at this early stage in my turning life I've got what I've got, and that aint a lot.
Without meaning to flog a dead horse, I've had a crack at putting more emphasis on the mass of the feet and create an A fame effect.
The wedge shaped feet could be shorter at the front and more elongated at the back. I could for all practicality insert the wedges into a tongue and groove or dovetail into the uprights and then bolt and reinforce them with a cross brace.

It is hoped this will do until I have sufficient skill and funding to upgrade to a more professional set-up....oh yeah and have some fun in the meantime.

I've included yet another pic and a photo of the lumber. The hammer on the floor should give you some idea of the mass of the wood.

Thanks for you valued advice.

Gazza

rsser
28th October 2008, 09:00 PM
Ern I would have to disagree with you there the stand I currrently have my DVRXP on was made with the front side straight and the back slanted. At first I thought this was great as there was no leg in the way but the more you use out of round peices the more it rocks toward you.

I am going to change it so there is a small angle forward to stop the rock. It doesnt need much probably 80-100mm at the foot which wont impede me.

Fair nuff.

For my VL175 I had it that way, out of welded rect. section steel, bolted to concrete. Understand that if wood is the material then things could be different. Sorry if I missed this in scanning the thread.

joe greiner
29th October 2008, 12:55 AM
Thanks for everyones valuable input.
I've taken all things into consideration and although a metal frame is the preferred option, at this early stage in my turning life I've got what I've got, and that aint a lot.
Without meaning to flog a dead horse, I've had a crack at putting more emphasis on the mass of the feet and create an A fame effect.
The wedge shaped feet could be shorter at the front and more elongated at the back. I could for all practicality insert the wedges into a tongue and groove or dovetail into the uprights and then bolt and reinforce them with a cross brace.

It is hoped this will do until I have sufficient skill and funding to upgrade to a more professional set-up....oh yeah and have some fun in the meantime.

I've included yet another pic and a photo of the lumber. The hammer on the floor should give you some idea of the mass of the wood.

Thanks for you valued advice.

Gazza

Looks fine to me, Gazza. Especially since this probably won't be your last lathe bench, and you're eager to start turning. My first lathe was a benchtop drill press, and I hadn't even learned to lay it on its back. The perfect is [sometimes] the enemy of the good, after all.:wink:

Joe

derekcohen
29th October 2008, 11:50 PM
Rigidity is all important. If I were building a stand for a large lathe, it would be steel, perhaps with wood or sand infill to damp vibration.

I recently built a wooden stand for my Jet mini lathe.
The thread on construction is here: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=77550

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a262/Derek50/Workbench%20and%20Workshop/Lathe%20bench/Lathebench-complete.jpg

A couple of months down the line and it has proved itself to be suitably solid and rigid.

Regards from Perth

Derek

badgaz
30th October 2008, 08:10 PM
I'm originally from Perth, and have been here in QBN for 5 years. Sometimes I wish I was back there just because Carbatec in Balcatta is so much bigger than the one in Canberra. Not that I'm complaining, the staff here have been very helpful and enthusiastic in their advice. I just miss wandering around the "big machines" and dreaming my expensive dreams.

Your set up is excellent; neat and practical. I aim to have something akin to yours somewhere dowwn the track. Good machine, good tools and a lot more experience.
I'm inspired by the work you did on the timber with the plane, must invest in a decent one sooner than later...lets see what this weekend brings shall we?

Kindest regards
Gazza
ex Tuart Hill boy.

orraloon
31st October 2008, 10:38 AM
Badgaz,
I am in favour of wood lathe benches as I think they absorb the vibrations. The bench must however be of solid construction and have the mass to absorb the said vibrations. A slight splay to the legs is good also a good feature for stability. Boxing in the back and sides adds to the ridgidness and provides storage for blanks and stuff. Mine was based on plans in a turning book by Keith Rowley. It is easy to make and the bolts allow it to be tightened up later if the wood shrinks a bit.

Regard
John

derekcohen
31st October 2008, 11:35 AM
Further to my earlier post about the stand I built ..

I had planned to bolt it to the wall once my workshop is complete and I know exactly where it will live. So far, however, this stand has been rigid and shock absorbant enough on its own. Still, for a larger lathe, the easiest way to achieve a high level of rigidity is to use the wall as an anchor. I do this will my workbench, and it makes a HUGE difference.

Regards from Perth

Derek