bang

[weisyboy]

i was turning a small bowl and there was a bang then a crash and my chisels stopped working.

when i looked down there was no end on my 20mm bowl gouge. after searching around my workshop i found a large chip out of the concrete floor and the end up against the wall 5m away. I am glad it didn't end up in my leg.

i was amassed that there was not a large jerk or similar on my end of the chissel.

[rgum]

Hope you were wearing eye protctn? :C
Glad the brocken peice is not in your eye either!
I would've expected a jolt too. Lucky. :o

Phew!

[wands]

You need to count and thank all your lucky stars, I'd say you've got a few of them on your side.

There must have been a fault in the steel, which was due to go off at any time, lucky for you it went when you had no limbs or body parts in it's projectory.

Cheers, Steve

[dai sensei]

:o:o

What sort of chisel was it, I assume a cheapy?

[weisyboy]

i was dressed as i normally am in the shop. shorts shirt and bare feet. anything else gets in the way.

funny thing is i have been using this chissel for the past 2 years and have used it that much that i have sharpened over 1 1/2 off it.

neil: it was a henry tailor

[Pat]

Carl, I saw a gouge with a broken end like that last night at the local Woodworkers club meeting. I did not ask what happened. Are they resharpen able or throw away?

[Manuka Jock]

Are these two broken tools the same make ?
If so , a bad batch maybe ?

[Pat]

The one last night was not a HT. I recall that it was a Ellsworth Signature Gouge.

[funkychicken]

I'm gonna put the blame on bad technique. What were you doing at the time?

[weisyboy]

i was skimming down the side of the bowl the same as i always do. :?

[tea lady]

Could a stress point be caused by quenching the tool perhaps after sharpening? That makes it brittle doesn't it? Or maybe there was an uneven bit in the tempering? :?

I'm glad you're OK, and not recovering from another offering to the shed god. :rolleyes::D

[DJ’s Timber]

How far was the tool hanging out over the toolrest?

[wheelinround]

How big a piece broke off ??

Think that having ground an 1" 1/2 off it may be a good part of the problem and no re-working, heat treatment as TL pointed out.

Look at both pieces you may see difference in grain structure and colour.

Lucky fella WB :2tsup:

[Ed Reiss]

Time to invest in full armor!!:doh:

Glad no injury to you, WB:2tsup:

[Allan at Wallan]

Quote: "I was amassed that there was not a large jerk
or similar on my end of the chissel".

Had to think about that Carl - glad you were not hurt.

Allan

[weisyboy]

or should i have said there was only one jerk on the chisel:;

it broke about 4" off so i doubt it was from sharpening.

[Robomanic]

Looks like a pretty good case of fatigue. Tiny flaws and inclusions at or near the surface increase the stress in that area. Small cracks can grow from microscopic flaws and their growth is accelerated by the vibration and strain of the tool. Can you see a tiny shiny area on the face at all? If there is one that would be have been the crack...

See the curve in the grain structure? Id love to see some high res photos of that.

[weisyboy]

this is the best i can do.

[DJ’s Timber]

So, as I asked earlier, how much was overhanging the toolrest?

Sounds like you had 4" or 5" hanging over for it to break that much off :shrug:

[TEEJAY]

Such a clean perpendicular shear plane - impressive.

Would have expected the grains to be aligned along the length of the tool and the shear plane to be jagged.

[weisyboy]

it broke at the tool rest. there wasn't room in the bowl for the tool rest

[Robomanic]

It would be worth checking out their warranty. Is the chisel too old to bother with trying to get a replacement? GJ had great service with his chisels and he didn't even buy it from them so who knows.

IMHO the crack started at a fault marked with the circle then grew down the face following the arrow. The circular rings in the grain are a big indication of cyclic stress from memory.

(I can't think upside down)

I will be thinking about this next time I am ploughing through some big roughing cuts :oo:.

[DJ’s Timber]

You still haven't answered my question?

How much of the tool was there sticking past the toolrest?

88679

[OGYT]

Sorry for the accident. Coulda made a sore toe, for sure. Might be time to locate a curved rest...??
I'm always thinking that I need to move that toolrest a little closer. When the cuttings going good, it's hard to stop and move the rest. But man, that's a scary thing! Glad you weren't hurt.

[weisyboy]

sorry DJ i meant to put it in the last post.

you shoulda been able to work it out if it broke off at the tool rest and 4" broke off then it was 4" over the toll rest.

thanks for the pic by the way.

i couldn't get the rest inside as the bowl was to small

[robutacion]

Hi weisyboy,

I wouldn't mind to take that front broken gouge part off your hands, as I have been looking for a replacement tip end of my exchangeable tip tool I've made last year. One of the ends was made exactly out of a broken bowl gouge of mine, then just long enough to be welded into the quick exchange shaft. Yours is 4" long so is a lot more than what I had on my bit when I done it. This gouge tip of mine, is now getting very short from constant sharpening so, your broken bit would do me fine to replace mine with. Obviously, this is if you haven't got any planes for it...!:D

Let me know,
Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[DJ’s Timber]

sorry DJ i meant to put it in the last post.

you shoulda been able to work it out if it broke off at the tool rest and 4" broke off then it was 4" over the toll rest.


No worries Carl, figured that you thought that I may have worked it out from the 4" that broke off, but I just wanted you to confirm that this was in fact correct as that is the most likely cause of it breaking.

Bowl gouges are not designed to work that far from the rest because of the flute design, it's a weak spot especially when it's that far out :no:

You should have changed to a scraper or Oland type tool if you couldn't get the rest in close to the work or come up with an alternative toolrest design to get the tool in closer to the work.

[weisyboy]

you are most welcome to the tip mate.

i have used this tool with the full 8" of the shaft over the tool rest. i do a fair few small diameter deep bowls.

this one is 5" diameter by 6" deep.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

You should still reset your toolrest to sit inside the bowl rather than keep on working with that much overhang!

[weisyboy]

i cant get my toolrest inside.

it would make the top to close to the top to work.

im gunna buy a really heavy bowl gouge.

[rsser]

Frankly for a form like that you'd be better off using a scraper to get to the bottom or an Oland tool. The scraper would need to be 3/8" thick and used with a light touch. You could also of course shell out for a specialised hollowing tool.

(Sorry DJ; I see I'm just adding to the chorus ... next time I'll read the thread right through).

[RETIRED]

i cant get my toolrest inside.

it would make the top to close to the top to work.

im gunna buy a really heavy bowl gouge.A heavier gouge still will not work.

A normal rest should still fit inside that size bowl.

Get a slim tool rest made that can fit inside or use a heavy scraper as has been suggested.
.

[woodwork wally]

Gidday Carl Go for the woodcut one with replacable tip . they are far stronger than the fluted gouge when you are that far over the rest and they dont sing the same either because the are a solid shaft with only a few inches of replaceable flute. It shouldn"t happen again Glad you weren"t hurt this time mate Cheers for now WW.Wally

[weisyboy]

thanks mate ill look into it

[rsser]

Just a heads-up on the replaceable tip jobs: if you use a sharpening jig and it depends on a flute for clamping you may well find your flute too short.

[weisyboy]

i have a heligrind but mainly sharpen by hand these days.

[rsser]

Nice work if you can get it.