What do I make with these?

[OGYT]

A friend gave me these. They are 6 1/8" blades for a Craftsman 6" Jointer. They are new, HSS Blades. :2tsup:
What would be good to make out of them? Scrapers? I don't know how to cut them, or how to drill a hole in them. But I know there's knowledge among you forumites. :p
If I had Hughie's talent and equipment, I'd be okay.
Looking for someone's brain to pick... :D

[wheelinround]

Cut off grinding wheel will cut them and shape them into turning attachments/tools tips or complete tools.

Even Ornamental cutting tools

[OGYT]

Thanks, Wheelin. That was a quick reply.
What are ornamental tools? Do you mean small tools for turning Christmas Ornaments?

[wheelinround]

Ornamental tools could be anything used to shape cut or decorate the surface

an example here (http://www.morewoodturning.net/article3.htm) for usual types and shapes

these are OT cutters used on an OT Lathe http://www.ornamentalturner.com/Archive/ot_ctrs.jpg

[OGYT]

Lots of good ideas on that Site; Thanks again. I think the first on I'm gonna try will be a beading cutter, like that #395.
Now if I can learn how to drill a hole in it, to make some little scrapers, I'll be all set.

[wheelinround]

I think its carbide drill bits slow speed plenty of lube oil

[tea lady]

:pi: How big are they?

[wheelinround]

:pi: How big are they?

Put your specs on TL :doh:

he said


They are 6 1/8" blades for a Craftsman 6" Jointer

[tea lady]

Put your specs on TL :doh:

he said Well the tile they are on is big then.:doh: :rolleyes::D

[OGYT]

The tile is 6" square. :D
The blades are 3/4" wide, and about 3/16" thick.

[Ed Reiss]

Could be re-ground to make a parting tool. Laminate a couple of pieces of wood for a handle.

[NeilS]

Could be re-ground to make a parting tool.

:whs: + would be good for making dovetail scrapers and also caputured ring tools (Lft and Rt).

Neil

[Gil Jones]

Al, those blades are extremely dangerous, probably you should send them over to Georgia so I can keep an eye on them for you:D:rolleyes: ...grin...

You could make bead forming cutters from them, and maybe a tenon dovetail cutter (LT and RT), and one for cutting a recessed chucking dovetail. I reckon I would be making several sets of thread forming tools from them too. Also, you could shape one into a double-ended captive ring cutting tool. Looks like you are going to be rather busy grinding out a mess of new tools, AL. Have fun, and work off some of that turkey.:happyb:

[Cliff Rogers]

Yup, special purpose scrapers, dovetail cutters, cove/bead cutters, ring tools, crop circle tools, endgrain scrapers, a square box scraper with a sharp end & a sharp side.

Clamp them to a work bench with the pointy end out over the edge & cut them to shape with one of those super-thin cutting wheels in an angle grinder. :2tsup:

[Frank&Earnest]

What Cliff said. I would take advantage of the existing long bevel and make at least one knife blade shaped scraper for the finishing pass of the inside of goblets and hollow forms. Just need a grinder for shaping a little the bevel and grinding off a bit at the end to make a tang. No need for other tools.

[rsser]

Pinch the tear-drop scraper idea from the Sorby multi-tip tool.

Shape your scraper (straight on one side, decreasing radius curve on the other), drill a screw hole, grind a flat on a bit of mild steel rod, tap for the screw and arrange a handle.

I find I reach for this tool for cleaning up bowl innards more often than the exxy HD bowl scrapers on the rack.

[hughie]

Al,
You will find it some what difficult to cut the HSS let alone drill it. The cut off wheels wont really touch it, as they are designed for mild steel.
Drilling with carbide might be a goer but you will need slow speed and a heap of pressure and a bucket load of coolant.
Cutting HSS is no easy task, generally you can grind a groove with your ali-oxide wheel [ white grinding wheel] and snap it along the groove line.

Perhaps the simplest way is to make a slotted tool holder to hold the piece and lock in to place with a set screw or some such.

[rsser]

FWIW, I've found that taking it slowly, cutting HSS (OK, roughing) with a 1 mm Inox wheel in a 4" angle grinder is no drama. Have shaped 3/8" thick HSS 'blanks' this way.

Hole drilling I can't comment on.

To add: with the cutting, you get bluing. But a few swipes with a diamond hone takes it away, and it's not sposed to matter that much with HSS ... but others are wiser than me on this topic.

[funkychicken]

Knives, marking knives, rebate plane blades, plane blades (like Blum planes)

[robutacion]

Drill HSS...!:o:doh: not easy, and can become very expensive hole(s)...!
My recent experience with the 16mm HSS square bar, for a single hole drilled about 3mm diameter and 12mm deep, replacing what I broke from my days as a gunsmith, $100 wouldn't be enough. Now, you think drilling HSS is bad...! try tapping it with a 4mm or less taper, a set of 3 special tapers just finish one hole, not without losing 2 of them. Replacement cost? maybe another $100.

Possible, oh yes is possible, to do anything with HSS, is it worth it? you be the judge of that! I maybe have enough equipment to drill and tap another small hole on HSS but, is it going to be used on a bloody tool shaft? not a bloody chance...! $200 (replacement tools only, labour? better not talk about it!), to fit a 4mm screw into a turning tool?, I could have the original Ci1 complete tool for that!:((.

I wouldn't even consider such attempt, if I hadn't had the tools and the experience with gun metals, which are, some of them, considerable hard to work with (triggers, sears, hammers, etc, etc. Such quality, expensive and specialised tools could maybe be justified, for "that" purpose, but not for "this" purpose. I did expect some troubles in doing it, and I have made it very clear on the thread in reference, maybe the reason why I didn't recommend others to try or thing easy to achieve.

Unfortunately, any of those tools (accessories) that I brake now, will never be replaced again, and I'm starting to run low, already...!:C:no:

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[Rippa]

You can drill holes in HSS with an sharp masonry drill and a good amount of coolant, the grease type coolant plummbers used when they cut threads on galvinized pipe. The masonary drill must be sharpened similar to a normal drill bit. Slow speed and constant pressure as you drill. If I get time tomorrow I will see if I can take a photo of a piece I have drilled (part of a 18 inch planner blade )and the bit I used. Hope this helps

Rippa

[TTIT]

I go along with Ern on cutting the planer blades with the 1mm cut-off wheels - no problems when I've been making Sorby style tear-drop scrapers.
Drilling the hole - no problem :U. I bought a set of titanium/carbide bits that cruise through HSS no worries if you use the prescribed speed of 2000 rpm - no coolant required. These bits drill through files (carbon steel??) like butter - even using a hand-held drill. Got them from a bloke based in Alphington (Vic) who does the ag field days circuit. Cost about $60 or 70 for a set of 7 bits but was worth it - very handy kit :2tsup:

[BobL]

You can drill holes in HSS with an sharp masonry drill and a good amount of coolant, the grease type coolant plummbers used when they cut threads on galvinized pipe. The masonary drill must be sharpened similar to a normal drill bit. Slow speed and constant pressure as you drill. If I get time tomorrow I will see if I can take a photo of a piece I have drilled (part of a 18 inch planner blade )and the bit I used. Hope this helps

Rippa

This is how I do mine as well except I use water solube oil as the lube.

Thin kerf cutting blades work fine as well. That was how I cut and shaped this home made HSS shave blade.
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/attachment.php?attachmentid=35523&d=1165067563

[robutacion]

I go along with Ern on cutting the planer blades with the 1mm cut-off wheels - no problems when I've been making Sorby style tear-drop scrapers.
Drilling the hole - no problem :U. I bought a set of titanium/carbide bits that cruise through HSS no worries if you use the prescribed speed of 2000 rpm - no coolant required. These bits drill through files (carbon steel??) like butter - even using a hand-held drill. Got them from a bloke based in Alphington (Vic) who does the ag field days circuit. Cost about $60 or 70 for a set of 7 bits but was worth it - very handy kit :2tsup:

Hi TTIT,

I think, I wouldn't mind to have one of them either, do you have any contact for this bloke? What sizes are they?

Cheers
RBTCO

[TTIT]

No connection to vendor etc. Actually don't know if he's even still in business - bought these about 3 years ago.

[woodwork wally]

G'Day Al Very difficult to drill but you can make up a shaft and handle with hole drilled in end of shaft to take a tip made from those suckers . you can glue the tip into hole with2 pack adhesive and you would have a great hollowing tool or scraper depending on shape you grind the end to . If I can find the site from Ern I will ad it to this . A nice win mate Cheers for now WW Wally

[Captain Chaos]

G'day Vern,
I just checked on the internet via Google & found this address for Perma - Seal Australia.
It would seem that they are still in business. Might be worth giving them a call.

Perma-Seal Australia Pty Ltd

673 Heidelberg Road, ALPHINGTON, VIC 3078
p: (03) 9497 2388
Website - None Supplied
Email - None Supplied


Regards,
Barry.

P.S, just found this web site for ARTU drill bits here in Oz.
http://newstyledirect.com.au/store/product.php?productid=16137 (http://http//newstyledirect.com.au/store/product.php?productid=16137)

[hughie]

I
've found that taking it slowly, cutting HSS (OK, roughing) with a 1 mm Inox wheel in a 4" angle grinder is no drama. Have shaped 3/8" thick HSS 'blanks' this way.

Well well you learn something new every day, thanks Ern. :2tsup:




I bought a set of titanium/carbide bits that cruise through HSS no worries if you use the prescribed speed of 2000 rpm - no coolant required. These bits drill through files (carbon steel??) like butter - even using a hand-held drill.


Gotta get me some of these, thanks Vern. :2tsup:

[robutacion]

G'day Vern,
I just checked on the internet via Google & found this address for Perma - Seal Australia.
It would seem that they are still in business. Might be worth giving them a call.

Perma-Seal Australia Pty Ltd

673 Heidelberg Road, ALPHINGTON, VIC 3078
p: (03) 9497 2388
Website - None Supplied
Email - None Supplied


Regards,
Barry.

P.S, just found this web site for ARTU drill bits here in Oz.
http://newstyledirect.com.au/store/product.php?productid=16137 (http://http//newstyledirect.com.au/store/product.php?productid=16137)

Thanks for doing all this background work.
Shame (for me!) that the smallest bit is only 4mm, as most of my smithing gear is less than that (taps, screws, etc) but still, a good set to have.

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[woodwork wally]

Gidday Al Have done a bit of research on those drill bits Permaseal are no longer in selling them BUT they gave me a contact and it goes Newstyle Direct phone 039492777
webpage and online purchasing www.newstyledirect.com.au (http://www.newstyledirect.com.au) so if you or anyone else is looking for the drills that is the contact I must add that I have no pecuniary intrest in this company but I did observe a demo at the melbourne working with wood show and he drilled through a file without hesitation and I had already bruised the financial restraints beyond immediate repair and thought I would have to wait till next year but in helping you I have found same for myself .Thanks to Vern TTIT for the initial lead. Cheers to you Al and all others who find this usefull WW.WALLY

[Frank&Earnest]

Very interesting, from a marketing point of view. I remember vividly looking in awe at the "drill through the file" demonstration at the International Fair in Milan in the early 1960's. In those days the demo was directed at the industrial market. Now the direct marketing approach suggests that there is no market for them through the normal distribution channels, and the potential clients are civilians like us to be sucked in with the "but wait, there's more!" technique. (by the way, I might be sucked in!:-) I would be very interested to know what has shaped the evolution of this product in the past 50 years.

[funkychicken]

Those drill bits will be dang handy

[OGYT]

I’ve been so busy for a couple of days that my puter time suffered. Can’t believe all the posts! My thanks to all of you, for some really good ideas!<o></o>
I do need an easy way to make captured rings. On my list. Dedicated dovetail cutter sounds good, too. I’ve been shakily destroying some nice beads, so a cutter for those would be good. Just finding out how, and with what, to grind those shapes might be a chore, also.<o></o>
My thanks to Vern for the headsup about those drill bits, and WWWally for getting the link. But, until I can afford a set of ‘em, I’ll try the slotted shaft idea that Hughie mentioned. Shouldn’t be too hard for a shaky old bloke like me.

Gil, You know the PTB in GA frown on sending weapons through the mail. <o></o>
Anyway, Thumbs up to all of you for the ideas and responses. What a forum!!:2tsup::2tsup:

[Gil Jones]

What is PTB ?.....Physikalisch Technische Bundesanstalt:)

[woodwork wally]

Hi Al Just saw the remarks on what to grind "em with I do a fair amount with Hispeed steel and I use my belt sander and angle grinders for most work. In the angle grinder I use an INOX cutoff wheel and have found the 1mm. very handy and if you do not use too much pressure [just let it slice ] the blade will do a lot of cuts I also use the standard cutoff wheel to do a lot of shaping when making miniature tools and captive ring and bead tools . I have 2 of the 115 mm. grinders set up in the elcheapo bench mounts which can be used as mini cut off machines Both grinders are the $27.00 local hardware generic brand and as there are 2 neither really gets a hiding so are economical. I do mini gouges out of concrete nails and cut flutes using those grinders and jigs . concrete nails are as hard as |||*^#$@ I would encourage you to let the imagination rule BUT dont bother trying to tap a thread in this stuff . Manufacturers drill and tap it before hardening it . I simply cut a recess for a nut or use a second grinder to counter sink and mount to normal steel tapped for screw. Cheers for now mate WW wally

[OGYT]

What is PTB ?.....Physikalisch Technische Bundesanstalt:)
<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->__________________
Gil
Powers That Be. :U

In the angle grinder I use an INOX cutoff wheel and have found the 1mm. very handy and if you do not use too much pressure [just let it slice ] the blade will do a lot of cuts. Cheers for now mate WW wally

Thanks for the info, WWW. What does INOX mean? Are these angle grinders the same ones that use a 4" cutter?

[hughie]

.
I’ve been shakily destroying some nice beads, so a cutter for those would be good. Just finding out how, and with what, to grind those shapes might be a chore, also.<o>
Al I've got design somewheres :? for a beading tool that knock will out beads quick time real easy.Haveto hunt it out and make a few pics for you. Not my idea originally but a simple and effective tools.

I put it in a safe place............:no:..........:?:doh:.............:U
</o>

[woodwork wally]

Al the Inox is a favorite brand and yes we can get the 1mm. X !00 mm. wheels here so I guess they would be there too .and the little angle grinders are the same as your . If you have trouble getting the wheels give me a yell and I will post a couple over and also I have been cruising that drill site and you can buy those as individuals on the spare parts page . Then 5 & 7 mm. are all you need . If you wish send me a pm. of your addres and I will post some photos over and drawings of some of my stuff I cant download from camera to computor email yet A program problem Anyway back to you all cheers for now WW.Wally

[Gil Jones]

Al,
Here is a pic of beading tools that Basil Kelsey (Ypsilanti, Michigan) made by regrinding some old (?) spindle gouges. You can find this pic in Basil’s album on WoW. I tried it out on a few OLD carving gouges, and it does work quite well. Basil says to use them flute DOWN, and like a scraper. I have also used them flute UP, and while they work OK that way, they can produce some spectacular catches in the flute UP mode, and are very aggressive if not well controlled. Plus, they work best on hard woods because they tend to produce a bit of tear-out on the softer woods. I reckon that old gouges found at flea markets for a low cost would be good. If you want a pic of the ones I reground, I will take one for you and post it. Mine are carbon steel, and need to have the edge retouched fairly often.
Have fun...

[hughie]

Here is a pic of beading tools that Basil Kelsey (Ypsilanti, Michigan) made by regrinding some old (?) spindle gouges. You can find this pic in Basil’s album in WoW. I tried it out on a few OLD carving gouges, and it does work quite well. Basil says to use them flute DOWN, and like a scraper. I have also used them flute UP, and while they work OK that way, they can produce some spectacular catches in the flute UP mode, and are very aggressive if not well controlled. Plus, they work best on hard woods because they tend to produce a bit of tear-out on the softer woods. I reckon that old gouges found at flea markets for a low cost would be good. If you want a pic of the ones I reground, I will take one for you and post it. Mine are carbon steel, and need to have the edge retouched fairly often.


Gil very similar to what I have, works well but.......... take it easy

[rsser]

This is Henry Taylor's version:

http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/store/Turning_Tools___Bowl_and_Spindle_Tools___Henry_Taylor___Henry_Taylor_Beading_Tool___htt_beading?Args=

I use a small one and it works quite well as long as the edge is keep fresh.

[OGYT]

I thank you one and all.
Wally, pm to be sent. I'll be waiting with bated breath for the pics and info.
I made a small round scraper. I ground the round shape, then cut it off with the dremel tool and a small cuttoff wheel. Then sharpened it at the angle of my Oland Tool cutters (whatever that is).
I had a chunk of 3/4 hot rolled steel, so I hacksawed a slot in the end about 1.5 inches. I drilled a 13/64 hole through the end (perpendicular to the slot), and then enlarged the hole in the upper half (above the slot) to 33/64. Then threaded the lower end of the hole to accept a 1/4/20 grub bolt.
I had to use the dremel to widen the hacksawed slot (as deep as the bolt hole) to accept the cutter.
I had too much tang on the cutter, and it chattered a little. So I shortened it a mite. Works perfect for smoothing out the tool marks inside a small hollow turning. :D
I really do appreciate all of your ideas and advice. I'll try to post some pics thisafter.

[wheelinround]

:2tsup: Nice looking tool holder the shape of the scraper looks good to

The chatter may have looked good on the wood :rolleyes:

[OGYT]

The other end of the tool is a piece of 3/4" pipe with grub screws to hold the shaft. The pipe has a handful of BBs in it, and is wrapped with cord. I needed the extra weight to keep my shaky hands quiet. :U