Re-finishing an old finished bowl

[Caveman]

G'day all,

I have an old bowl - one of my earlier ones that has a nice form, but horrible finish that has gotten more blotchy with age.

It is a large bowl - about 15" with no means of re-chucking and has very slightly warped so wouldn't run true anyway.
It's a rather special timber so I would really like to do it justice.

Any ideas how to resand the bowl?
It was finished with BLO and then beeswax. Any ideas how to go about it without using a ton of sandpaper???

Was thinking of power sanding using a bunch of old/used 3" sanding disks, but they'll get clogged in half a second!

Any tips?

[DJ’s Timber]

You should be able to remove a fair bit of the wax if not all, using White Spirits and rags.

[TTIT]

You should be able to remove a fair bit of the wax if not all, using White Spirits and rags.........and elbow grease!:U

[Caveman]

:2tsup:Thanks for that DJ - will give that a go.


........and elbow grease!:U

Was fairly sure there's no way of avoiding a liberal application of that one!!!:D

[Manuka Jock]

Steel wool and water ? . Seeing as the oily buildup has saturated the wood , the water won't have any adverse effects .

[powderpost]

Turpentine and steel wool will do a good job also.
Jim

[hughie]

Andy,

They have got it pretty well covered. Do you have a Longworth chuck or something similar? If so you could use that to clean up the outside, run it slow should do the trick.

[Caveman]

:2tsup:Thanks guy's.

[rsser]

Not enough meat in the bottom to turn a recess or tenon? If not, sand it bare and mount a glue block (not out of MDF though).

Other rim mount methods would be Cole Jaws or vac chuck. Or clamp the bowl between a friction drive and tailstock.

If the BLO has soaked in well you might be up for removing wood.

Is it still fairly true?

[robutacion]

G'day all,

I have an old bowl - one of my earlier ones that has a nice form, but horrible finish that has gotten more blotchy with age.

It is a large bowl - about 15" with no means of re-chucking and has very slightly warped so wouldn't run true anyway.
It's a rather special timber so I would really like to do it justice.

Any ideas how to resand the bowl?
It was finished with BLO and then beeswax. Any ideas how to go about it without using a ton of sandpaper???

Was thinking of power sanding using a bunch of old/used 3" sanding disks, but they'll get clogged in half a second!

Any tips?

Oh yeah, plenty of them..., the problem is, how brave are you?

Would you put (submerse) that special bowl in a soaping solution (clean water and dish washer liquid detergent) for a few days?

Would you then be prepared to re-turn it (remove a thin layer, only)?

Why do I suggest such a thing?
This is why;
1- the soaking solution will rejuvenate the dry timber cells.
2- the detergent agent will remove a percentage dirt from the grain.
3- the submersion into the solution will bring the bowl to the round shape (original)
4- the re-turning (cutting, only, no sanding)) will be gentle to the timber as it is wet (done after the piece is drip dry - 1 to 3 hours after removing from solution). Rap bowl into news paper for 24 hours.
5- Next day, remove from news paper, re-chuck and sand it down. Finish with whatever you wish.
6- Good for another 10 to 20 years!:D

Chucking, re-turning, re-mounting...? many options there, this is one,(pic)

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[Caveman]

Not enough meat in the bottom to turn a recess or tenon? If not, sand it bare and mount a glue block (not out of MDF though).

Other rim mount methods would be Cole Jaws or vac chuck. Or clamp the bowl between a friction drive and tailstock.

If the BLO has soaked in well you might be up for removing wood.

Is it still fairly true?
Thanks Ern - a few options.

Not too sure how true it is - what looks slightly out by eye can be another thing when put back on the lathe. Will have to check the base thickness and see if enough left to put a tenon - if not then your glue block sounds good.


Would you put (submerse) that special bowl in a soaping solution (clean water and dish washer liquid detergent) for a few days?

Would you then be prepared to re-turn it (remove a thin layer, only)?
Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO
Thanks RBTCO - would that then not be like turning a green bowl for roughing out and then having wait some time (month/months) before returning and finishing?

[rsser]

I doubt that soap and water will dissolve the BLO.

The blotchiness might well be caused by oil in the salad dressing penetrating the wood unevenly. You might think about dropping the bowl into BLO and let it finish the job. Raw linseed oil would be cheaper but be prepared to let it sit for weeks to dry.

If the bowl is only somewhat out of round you can still sand it if you run it slow enough for the power sanding pad to follow it. With this option I'd first get at it with 00 or 000 steel wool and a solvent and get as much finish off it as possible. Turps or white spirit - just enough to moisten the surface.

Your problem Andy is one that Raffan refers to, saying that's why it's useful to leave a recess on utilitarian bowls. Easy to be wise in hindsight of course. I've just refinished a Blackwood platter that orig had Rustin's DO on it. That wasn't too durable ... I think citrus fruit accounted for some black marks. The finish sanded off without much gumming up. But I use a rubber abrasive stick cleaner to restore the disc. Only takes seconds with the pad running in the drill.

Hope this helps.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Perhaps cutting a 3" disk out of an old sheet of micromesh to remove the bulk of the wax? It'd still be prone to clogging, but nowhere near as quickly as sandpaper...

I've done this a few times to remove a Danish/Tung finish while it's still "green." ie. when it's become (barely) touch-dry but well before it's fully cured. Sometimes first coats can go go disastrously awry and I don't really want to wait a week before fixing the problem. :~

[RETIRED]

Perhaps cutting a 3" disk out of an old sheet of micromesh to remove the bulk of the wax? It'd still be prone to clogging, but nowhere near as quickly as sandpaper...

I've done this a few times to remove a Danish/Tung finish while it's still "green." ie. when it's become (barely) touch-dry but well before it's fully cured. Sometimes first coats can go go disastrously awry and I don't really want to wait a week before fixing the problem. :~How do you know?:roll:

[Caveman]

Thanks Skew - wouldn't know what micromesh is out here:-, but I reckon a good go with steel wool to start off with will get rid of most of the gunk.


Your problem Andy is one that Raffan refers to, saying that's why it's useful to leave a recess on utilitarian bowls. Easy to be wise in hindsight of course. Hope this helps.

Yep - wonderful thing hindsight!

Actually started doing just that on a few of recent pieces for frequent use.:2tsup:

What's this rubber abrasive cleaner thing? Sounds useful.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Sorry Andy, wasn't thinking. :- But micromesh is sort of like plastic steel wool. (I'm not talking about the 3M product of the same name, here. :rolleyes:) Big disks of it are often used on the old-school rotary floor-sanders/cleaners/polishers to remove old wax without taking away much wood. That's where I sourced mine from, anyway. :)


How do you know?:roll:

From standing back and watching "experts." :innocent:

[Manuka Jock]

What's this rubber abrasive cleaner thing? Sounds useful.

They are good those sandpaper declogging sticks
After I bought one , I realised that it was suspiciously like a crepe rubber shoe sole :U

[rsser]

How do you know?:roll:

Practice :wink:





What's this rubber abrasive cleaner thing? Sounds useful.

Here Andy: http://www.carbatec.com.au/sanding/belt-disc-cleaners

[Caveman]

Sorry Andy, wasn't thinking. :- But micromesh is sort of like plastic steel wool. (I'm not talking about the 3M product of the same name, here. :rolleyes:) Big disks of it are often used on the old-school rotary floor-sanders/cleaners/polishers to remove old wax without taking away much wood. That's where I sourced mine from, anyway. :)
Ah yes - them things. Thanks.


They are good those sandpaper declogging sticks
After I bought one , I realised that it was suspiciously like a crepe rubber shoe sole :U
Hmm - thanks - might see if the puppy has left any pieces of that old boot lying around!


Here Andy: http://www.carbatec.com.au/sanding/belt-disc-cleaners

Thanks Ern - certainly does look handy if it allows a few more spins of the sandpaper - not easy to come by out here.

[robutacion]

Thanks RBTCO - would that then not be like turning a green bowl for roughing out and then having wait some time (month/months) before returning and finishing?[/quote]


Not really, Caveman...!

We are not dealing with green timber, but with old dry wood. Wetting the timber, wouldn't take long to dry at all, mainly in Summer. The idea of soaking in soaping solution, is better suited if the old bowl was warped (out of round). Is quite amazing how soap solution can relax the fibres and bring the bowl to its round shape.
The soaping solution would also brake down some of the "gunk" but, that wasn't the reason why the bowls would be submersed in the first place!

Some old coatings, mainly oil based, are very difficult to remove, as they did soak deep into the timber and they don't mix (like) to be coated with the more modern products.

I hope you find an effective solution for your project!:D

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[rsser]

Andy, as MJ forensically determined, you can use crepe rubber soles too. They're just not as handy on small discs.

[rsser]

Just to add Andy, the rubber sticks are a fairly common item. If you have an industrial supplies place in the nearest city you might well find one.

(I just experimented with putting n/c sanding sealer on a green-turned bowl before sanding and it clogged up the sanding discs in seconds; the stick pulled the goo off in seconds.)

[Ed Reiss]

What's this rubber abrasive cleaner thing? Sounds useful.

Andy...what your looking for is like a giant eraser made of crepe rubber, tan in color. Just hold it up against moving sandpaper and it "sucks" all the residue from the sandpaper.

[Caveman]

:2tsup:Thanks guys - will see if I can track some down.
Have had quite a bit of success using an old boot sole that seems to fit the description - fairly effective at cleaning up old pads.
I'm sure the real thing would be more effective though.

[powderpost]

My japanese safety boots (rubber thongs) have strange curved shapes in them, something similar to the shape of the rollers on the sander... :U
Jim

[robutacion]

:2tsup:Thanks guys - will see if I can track some down.
Have had quite a bit of success using an old boot sole that seems to fit the description - fairly effective at cleaning up old pads.
I'm sure the real thing would be more effective though.

Hi Caveman,

Here they are, http://www.activeabrasives.com.au/product.php?productid=16161&cat=259&page=2 from the Sandpaper Man (advertised here)
I have one that arrived a few days ago with some other abrasive stuff and these people are great to deal with, seriously!

Cheers:2tsup:
RBTCO

[Caveman]

My japanese safety boots (rubber thongs) have strange curved shapes in them, something similar to the shape of the rollers on the sander... :U
Jim
:D:D:D

Here they are, http://www.activeabrasives.com.au/product.php?productid=16161&cat=259&page=2 from the Sandpaper Man
RBTCO
Thanks for that.