Lidded Container Advice

[leisureologist]

The pics are of my first lidded container. Got the basic instructions from a book (Creative Woodturning by Dale Nish). The problem is the bottom of the container. i was able to widen the opening with the skew chisel but the jittering became worse the deeper I got and I was tearing out grain in the bottom. I finally got a curved toolrest that fit in the opening and tried a repair with the round nose scraper but the jittering and damage got worse. Tried to fix it with glue and shavings but that only highlighted the problem. I use a lathe and tools at a club as I do not have my own or anyplace to put them.

I am trying another next week. Any pearls of wisdom from experienced turners would be apprecited to help me get to the bottom of the problem, or should that be problem of the bottom?

Thanks
Rick

[Cliff Rogers]

...Any pearls of wisdom from experienced turners would be apprecited to help me get to the bottom of the problem, or should that be problem of the bottom?.....


1. The end grain of some timber is VERY hard to cut clean without tearing.
2. Sharpen your scraper often, take very light cuts & practice, practice, practice....

Sometimes you can try to stabilise end grain that tears by various addatives...
Try these...
Wet it with water, wait a bit & then take light cuts.
The water swells the end grain so it hopefully doesn't tear out as much.

Harden it with sanding sealer or glue, several people use CA (super glue) but make sure it has set before you start the lathe & wear eye protection.

[OGYT]

Rick, how far across the toolrest were you?
I wouldn't go so far as to say I'm experienced, but.
I use a small bullnose scraper, holding the cutting edge at about a 45 degree angle. I use a fairly high speed, sharpen often, and take ve-e-r-r-y light cuts. Sometimes I stabilize the wood with a light wash of 35%Lacquer/65%Thinner, and let that dry about 10 minutes to cure pretty hard. I usually cut in the upper left quadrant, starting at the center with a shearing , arcing upward as I cut along the bottom, then back down to just above center as I approach the transition point from the bottom to the side. I try to keep the tool angled downward just slightly while I'm doing this, which keeps me from getting too many catches, with my shaky hands. It's sort of hard to do when cutting inside a small box.
I don't know if this makes sense... it's a lot easier to do than to explain.
Quadrant: If you can imagine a verticle and horizontal line that cross in the middle of the bottom, it divides the bottom into four quadrants. Upper left.

[leisureologist]

Thank you both for taking the time to answer. I shall try the stabilising with sanding sealer and sharpening the tools before I start and before I get the bottom going. I'll have a look at that quadrant idea and see if it works for me. Using a piece of the same bit of wood too.

Thanks again
:)
Rick

[bellyup]

Hey Rick,
I know what you're saying, I am just finishing a Mulga end grain bowl and I now know the meaning of true terror!! I still have all my teeth and most fingers though my scraper is loose in it's handle!
The timber was so hard I left the grinder running all the time to touch-up the scaper while I was hollowing out.
I ended up with a similar problem to you but found my Dremel tool had a really handy mini sanding disc that could reach inside and take the worst of the catches out then reverted back to traditional sanding.
Your box looks good, great job.:2tsup:

[leisureologist]

The Dremel! (Slaps forehead!) Got one when I was doing carving and never thought of it. Thanks mate! That will get a workout as well if needed.

Rick

[thefixer]

G'day Rick


The diameter at the bottom looks considerably smaller than at the top so I would be attacking that one with a very sharp bowl gouge. In my limited experience I have found that a that a sharp gouge dragged across a flat bottom bowl or similar, cuts a lot more cleanly than any scraper. This of course also takes a lot of practice but once you learn how you will get a much better finish off the tool and reduce the need for sanding enormously. I think its best to practice hollowing with a bowl gouge on green timber. No nasty catches and builds up your confidence.

Cheers
Shorty

[joe greiner]

Nice work, Rick.

About all I can add is to consider an Oland tool with a 45-degree offset cutter. I can cut to about 8 or 9 inches deep from the standard toolrest before chatter - 1/8" cutter and 1/2" round bar shank, with a long handle; movable vise-grip pliers for adjustable torque control. The small bites make it less susceptible to catches.

Key technique is cutting above the "equator," i.e. upper left quadrant, on the sides, so that the timber moves away from the cutting point; for the bottom itself, cut below the equator is better. To accommodate these contradictions, vary the apparent equator by rotating the tool as you make the transition through the corner. AFAIK, this can be applied to almost any type of cutter.

FWIW, I've learned the right way to do a few things, and the wrong way to do almost everything else.:rolleyes:

Cheers,
Joe

[oldiephred]

I agree with the oland tool with 45deg angle for the sides and one straight out for the bottom. However there are some woods on which you just won't get an end grain cut that suits you.

[NeilS]

Hi Rick

If that is banksia then you have started with what I have found to be one of the more challenging woods for end-grain tear-out.

Perhaps try a denser grained wood next time, along with the above advice, to develop your technique before returning to the banksia, if that is what it is.

Neil

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I wouldn't have picked it as a Banksia, but if it is then a scraper is the way to go. (Or so I've found.)

Given the depth of the piece and assuming you haven't a tool-rest which'll fit in snug & close to the work face (not without obstructing your view and/or restrict the "work area," anyway) then an oland tool would my #1 choice of tool... they're nice & thick and are ideally suited to this sort of work with the minimum of flex.

I'd use it square on - the same as any scraper - for bulk removal of material and then roll it over to 45°, as Joe said, for the finishing cuts.

Finally, a bit of sandpaper wrapped around a suitable support material... something like a length cut from an old rubber thong. (Flip-flop, to our OS brethren. :rolleyes:)

[leisureologist]

I had another go today with Camphor Laurel. A you can see in the pics I got the sides better (only about 2 mil difference between top and bottom). Also got the bottom neater by using a narrow bowl gouge very finely but still have toolmarks. I haven't been able to finish the inside as I ran out of time on the lathe. I will be researching the Oland tool and talking with some of the chaps who can do that kind of work. The lid fits snugly which is what I wanted and planned for.

Thank you all for the advice and encouragement. I will continue to improve. This is a very good forum for new guys.

regards
Rick