Which lathe for me?

[ElizaLeahy]

Finances are tight, so I'm looking at the Carba Tec Economy Woodlathe for $539
http://www.carbatec.com.au/woodturning-tools/lathes-accessories/carba-tec-economy-woodlathes

I'm mostly wanting to make hair sticks (think pens, only a bit longer and a tad thinner) but I do have a fondness for bowls and hollow vessels so I don't want a mini lathe

Do you think that's a good machine to start with, or do you know of another that might be better - for a similar price? (a little higher I migth be able to go, but not much!)

Also - any problems with that one I should know about?

Many thanks!!!

Eliza

[Chipman]

Hi,

You don't have to necessarily write off the mini lathes... I have a woodfast mini and routinely turn bowls up to 280 mm diameter. (But of course it can only turn short length unless you get a bed extension)

Seems like a reasonable starting position unless you can get a good one secondhand.

Happy turning!

Chipman

[Robomanic]

Hi Eliza,
These type of lathes are pretty common here. I own the slightly larger version MC1100 but it is basically the same. The quality control is a bit low at this price range so the alignment between the headstock and tailstock centers may vary. I keep meaning to call the guys and arrange a bed replacement or something on mine because it is probably bad enough for warranty. It is noticeable when you do short pieces that are rigidly fixed to the headstock, like supporting a bowl with the tailstock (my solution is to not support the bowl, but that does not work for everyone). The carbatec model has aluminium fins on the motor where as mine does not and it gets quite hot.

I bought mine because it was the best bang for buck around $500. Have fun :)

[new_guy90]

Hi Eliza how much experience do you have with wood turning?

i heard that was a good lathe to get but have you given enough thought to the minis? if your going to make small stuff go look at the woodfast mini lathe i think its the same price oh and you can extend the bed latter on

do you have any tools? remember buy the good ones

happy turning

Patrick

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

The MC900 is sold under many brand-names with as many variants. It's the basic, entry line model, unless you start talking about GMC and other "wannabe-lathes."

It does have it's problems, but it takes quite some time before a learner's skill levels reach the point where these problems become real disadvantages. A decade or three in some turner's cases. (Although many learner's blame their inability to do something on these same faults, even though there are often simple workarounds. :rolleyes:)

As a first lathe, it's a good choice; especially when money is tight.

It's main problem is bad machining (being bottom of the range) which tends to show up as problems with centering the headstock & tailstock to the lathe bed. eg. When the headstock is rotated for out-board turning and then moved back, it often does not lock exactly centered to the lathe bed.

For bowl turning without the tailstock & long spindles this isn't an issue, but for pens and similar items where the tailstock is brought up close to the headstock (let's say... 8" seperation or less) this misalignment can be a major cause for complaint.

The solution? Before you buy put a drive- and tail-spur in the head- and tailstocks. Unclamp the headstock, rotate it out to outboard mode and then rotate it back in and lock back into place. Then slide the tailstock all the way up to the headstock. If the centres kiss exactly, sweet! :2tsup: If there's any vertical misalignment, you really don't want that particular lathe. Too difficult to fix and not worth the effort. Move along, move along... what other lathes do they have to look at? (This is the MC-900 lathe's equivalent of kicking the tyres in a 2nd-hand car-yard. :wink:)

Horizontal misalignement can be annoying, but it's just a simple matter of unclamping the headstock and jiggling it back into alignment. (Get used to doing this... it'll become a frequent habit. :rolleyes:)

If you find one that has no vertical misalignment, then it's a good idea to make sure it's that particular one that gets delivered to your door. Don't settle for the salesman's line of "they're all the same" because they most definitely are not! (No more than finding one good car in a yard means everything else in the lot is sound.)

FWIW, I have two of 'em... one is around 25yo and has seen a helluva lot of work over the years, the other a mere youngling at maybe 5yo. I have no plans whatsoever for replacing either... although I'm always on the lookout for "bigger, better & more expensive" toys to sit next to them. :D

[Little Festo]

Hello Eliza,

Must agree with the members suggesting that you think about the Woodfast Mini, looks like it's approaching a "small" midi lathe in size. Sounds as though it would suit your immediate needs. It could be handy to have a portable lathe too.

Peter

[artme]

Hi Eliza.Skew has given a good rundown of the issues you need to consider. The Woodfast is a neat lahe as are the small ( mini and midi ) Jets.

Look at second hand lathes too. Several in today's Courier Mail. May pick up somethijng better than curret selection and at a better price.

[ElizaLeahy]

The MC900 is sold under many brand-names with as many variants. It's the basic, entry line model, unless you start talking about GMC and other "wannabe-lathes."....
FWIW, I have two of 'em... one is around 25yo and has seen a helluva lot of work over the years, the other a mere youngling at maybe 5yo. I have no plans whatsoever for replacing either... although I'm always on the lookout for "bigger, better & more expensive" toys to sit next to them. :D

Thanks for this info! I'll check - but I have a feeling that the models they have set up are only examples, and the ones they sell are in a box out the back - but I'll put my foot down and insist on testing the spindle allignment.

I'm not sure what you mean with the horizontal one though?

[ElizaLeahy]

Hi Eliza.Skew has given a good rundown of the issues you need to consider. The Woodfast is a neat lahe as are the small ( mini and midi ) Jets.

Look at second hand lathes too. Several in today's Courier Mail. May pick up somethijng better than curret selection and at a better price.

Does Carba Tec have the Woodfast?

I looked in the classified, but I really don't know enough to buy second hand. Carba tec is 3 blocks from me (this could be dangerous!)

Thanks for the reply!

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Thanks for this info! I'll check - but I have a feeling that the models they have set up are only examples, and the ones they sell are in a box out the back - but I'll put my foot down and insist on testing the spindle allignment.

Probably. But it never hurts to ask. :)


I'm not sure what you mean with the horizontal one though?

I mean that if you look down on the two centres from above and one is a mm or two closer to the front/back of the lathe than the other, then you can easily adjust it back into alignment. 'Tis but a minor annoyance.

If, on the other hand, you squat down and look at the two centre points from the front and find that one is higher than the other, forget about that lathe altogether.

[joe greiner]

I agree with everything Skew says about the MC900. I've had its twin sister, Harbor Freight's HF34706, for about 2.5 years, and most of its limitations are mine. A recent new member of my WT club also has one, and he's legally blind. 'Tis a poor mechanic that blames 'is tools, after all.

The horizontal mis-alignment is a consequence of running clearance, to allow movement of the tailstock. Unless the machining is seriously bad, you should be able to find a useable sweet spot, and remember it or place some visible markings for reference. If they're only 3 blocks away, it could be dangerous for both them and you.

My only strong gripe is the motor location, within the working envelope. They cloned the Jet's bad features along with the good. IIRC, Skew relocated the motor on one of his. I've been able to work around it for largish bowl blanks by careful blank preparation.

The elbow tool rest support, for outboard turning, seems designed to fail. I haven't tried it yet, and I'd lean toward an independent rest first.

Cheers,
Joe

[artme]

Eliza, get onto Hare and Forbes and price their equivalent machine. Might do better.

Google Woodfast and see who sells in Bris. Check with Enzo at Vermec and see if they have any and hand machines. Jets is sold by Gregory Machinery at Richlands.
Also check to see what David Drescher has at South East Qld. Woodworking supplies , Randal St. Slacks Creek. He often has trade ins.

[Robomanic]

Eliza, get onto Hare and Forbes and price their equivalent machine. Might do better.

Google Woodfast and see who sells in Bris. Check with Enzo at Vermec and see if they have any and hand machines. Jets is sold by Gregory Machinery at Richlands.
Also check to see what David Drescher has at South East Qld. Woodworking supplies , Randal St. Slacks Creek. He often has trade ins.

Mine is the mc1100 from woodfast and they do the 900 as well. Just watch out for the motor and its lack of cooling fins.

As Skew mentioned with the alignment, I am happy that my vertical alignment is ok but the slop in the machining means that the horizontal needs to be tweaked. There is actually a bad patch in the machining that I did not pick up, where the casting is wider than the machined width of the slot. So for most of the bed it is machined down, but in one place the casting actually falls away from the machined face leaving a bump and a sloppy patch. I dismissed it at the time because the front machining is fine and I just pull the tailstock against the front edge. Shouldn't have to though I guess, and I doubt they are all like it.

[Sawdust Maker]

I'd agree with Joe

The tool rest is a tad weak - In the year I had mine managed to need a new one :doh:

Broke it using it on the outboard hookup - seems designed to fail, stresses all in the wrong place

I did wonder why the motor was in the position it was

PS Hare & Forbes occasionally have them on special - pays to check

[Calm]

I definetly recommend looking at Hafco (hare & forbes) lathes. I have one and find it very good apart from the slop in the bed which is aparent with all these cheaper mc 900/1100 clones. Hare & forbes have always been quick on service and supply.

No connection just a happy customer.

(http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VARIABLE-SPEED-WOOD-LATHE_W0QQitemZ300283962055QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_BnI_Woodworking_Metalworking?hash=item300283962055&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A13%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)here (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VARIABLE-SPEED-WOOD-LATHE_W0QQitemZ300283962055QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_BnI_Woodworking_Metalworking?hash=item300283962055&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A13%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318)is just what you wanted - finished not long ago.

[new_guy90]

wow i never realized how many problems that lathe has .........i stress again consider going with the woodfast mini lathe its listed cheaper on the net and a bed extension is only $110 more, it has the same swing that will be fine for doing decent bowls, the motor has the cooling fins, it has an indexing head (i find that feature very handy), its more compact and its made from a VERY good manufactures the only bad point is it needs a bench but they do sell an adjustable stand made for it you may have problems with the lathe center hight and your hight on the 900 model but the woodfast's you can set it just right ............heres a link to it at carba-tec

http://www.carbatec.com.au/woodturning-tools/lathes-accessories/woodfast-mini-lathe

ok for all the points i have listed here please don't take it as gospel i haven't used ether of them im just pointing out the obvious differences ..............ask someone here who has the woodfast what it is like oh and if you can get involved in wood turning club they will have bigger machines for you to use :U

another thing tools do you have any? they are very expensive (a crap set stars at $125 or so and goes up!) oh remember you need a grinder thats another $175 or so oh and latter you will want a chuck

good luck

Patrick

Edit: don't forget about the wood! all this stuff is useless if you don't have wood or even worse you have run out of money!

[ElizaLeahy]

another thing tools do you have any? they are very expensive (a crap set stars at $125 or so and goes up!) oh remember you need a grinder thats another $175 or so oh and latter you will want a chuck

good luck

Patrick

It's all pretty confusing!

I have a grinder (from John, beautiful, almost new looking Riobi!) and some tools coming from Stuart, yes I want a chuck.

I'm going to phone sth E Qld woodworking and Har and Forbes and Vermec tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help!

[Big Shed]

wow i never realized how many problems that lathe has .........i stress again consider going with the woodfast mini lathe its listed cheaper on the net and a bed extension is only $110 more, it has the same swing that will be fine for doing decent bowls, the motor has the cooling fins, it has an indexing head (i find that feature very handy), its more compact and its made from a VERY good manufactures the only bad point is it needs a bench but they do sell an adjustable stand made for it you may have problems with the lathe center hight and your hight on the 900 model but the woodfast's you can set it just right ............heres a link to it at carba-tec

http://www.carbatec.com.au/woodturning-tools/lathes-accessories/woodfast-mini-lathe

ok for all the points i have listed here please don't take it as gospel i haven't used ether of them im just pointing out the obvious differences ..............ask someone here who has the woodfast what it is like oh and if you can get involved in wood turning club they will have bigger machines for you to use :U

another thing tools do you have any? they are very expensive (a crap set stars at $125 or so and goes up!) oh remember you need a grinder thats another $175 or so oh and latter you will want a chuck

good luck

Patrick

Patrick, just to balance your glowing "review", a few points.

First of all, the Woodfast Mini is not manufactured by Woodfast, but is a Chinese rebadge job. Some time ago I was in the market for a mini lathe and had a look at one both in Carbatec and at Woodfast in Adelaide. On both machines there was a problem with alignment of the head and tail stock.

I own an older MC900 and for all its' "problems, I manage to produce some nice pens (well I think so anyway) on it. We all learn to work around some our tools' limitations.
For the price it is a capable lathe, has very nice variable speed and is often available secondhand at a very reasonable price.

What mini lathe did I buy I hear you ask? I didn't, I decided to buy a metal lathe instead and have been very happy with my choice:2tsup:

[ElizaLeahy]

I'm getting confused now! But wasn't the woodfast the one with the different size attachments so that you can't just buy a standard chuck or whatever, you have to buy specific for it?

Or am I thinking of another one?

[Robomanic]

Mine is the mc1100 from woodfast

SORRY - it is not a woodfast, it is the Hafco from Hare & Forbes. Don't know what I was thinking.:doh:

[Big Shed]

I'm getting confused now! But wasn't the woodfast the one with the different size attachments so that you can't just buy a standard chuck or whatever, you have to buy specific for it?

Or am I thinking of another one?

Yes, it can all be very confusing!

As far as attachments are concerned, I assume you are talking about drive centres, chucks and the like?

What you have to look for here is the spindle thread of the head stock, which in the case of the Woodfast is 30mmx3.5, a very common thread size and chucks for this are available from all the major suppliers.

The other attachment is drive centres, mandrels and the like.
Here the Woodfast uses a MT2 (Morse Taper 2), again a standard size, and all the suppliers can supply these attachments in that format.

Most of the MC900/1100 lathes available use either 1"x10tpi or 30mmx3.5 spindle threads and MT2 internal taper as well.

Hope that helps?

Have you thought about joinig a wood turning club before committing to a lathe purchase? It would help you understand these sorts of issues enormously, most of the members of these clubs are only too willing to help.

[Woodwould]

I was recently in the market for a cheap-ish lathe and after some debate in another thread here I decided on a MC900 from Carpet Heck. I got chatting to the guys there and I ended up buying a MC1100 instead. They had a few that they were pushing out the door for $429 (IIRC) to make new for the up-dated model. For that price, I couldn't refuse. It might be worth a call to see if they have any left.

I haven't unpacked mine yet, so I can't comment on pros or cons.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

What BigShed said: there isn't really a standard size... it's more a set of standard sizes. :rolleyes:

Brand-new it should come with a faceplate with the correct thread, as well as a pair of basic MT2 drive- and tail-spurs.

You need to know the headstock spindle's thread size when placing an order for a chuck or faceplate anyway & the tool-post diameter if you're buying extra toolrests, etc. but they're easily measured if you can't find them in the lathes manual.

[Gil Jones]

Eliza, good luck with whichever lathe you decide on.
No matter how good the quality of the machine is, the lathe bed (ways) can be forced out of true (or back into it) by securing the machine to a crooked surface. So, before you think that the alignment is no good due to design, machining, or whatever, be sure you have the feet secured to a true surface. Plus, you can easily shim the feet (or adjust them up or down if they are adjustable) to compensate for an out of true stand or bench surface. If the alignment of the headstock and tailstock (to each other) is off just a bit, try shimming/adjusting the feet to bring it into alignment.
Cheers,

[new_guy90]

big shed thanks for your input like i said i haven't used these lathes so what i say is only what can be seen from the web and yes i did know that the woodfast is a Chinese badge job .............if i was going to get one it would be the woodfast thats just me

this is all very confusing to start so maybe we can cut through the it a bit Eliza

how much wood turning have you done?

its good to hear you are getting some tools and a grinder latter you will need to learn how to sharpen them! thats very fun trust me :U i suggest getting a book called "wood turning a foundation course" by Keith Rowley thats the one i got and i found it very good ...got me hooked on turning :U in the book it will explain most things

don't worry about the chuck they are strait forward to get well explain them latter

[rsser]

Elizabeth, if all that sounds like too much to absorb, then may I suggest you find a local turner, or local turner's group, make friends, draw up a list of 'things to look out for' from the posts above, agree on it with one of these friends, and take him/her down with you when you're looking at a buy.

An alt is to locate a local pro turner and do the same thing. You'll have to shell out some $$ but that's just an investment in peace of mind.

Good luck with your quest!

[new_guy90]

yeah do what rsser said

[Chipman]

Elizabeth, it is only natural that most people will tell you that what they have is OK as we get used to its characteristics.

So lets cut to the chase:

Midi/mini
If you plan on mainly turning short spindles, pens, small bowls and the occasional larger bowl then a midi (or mini) that can turn a 300mm bowl will do. Remember that small lathes have small motors and so you have to learn to take very light cuts (a good practise anyway, especially when you are beginning)

Long Bed
If you are going to turn long spindles (eg table legs) then you are better off with a long bed. You will also have enough power to turn bigger bits of wood and take heavier cuts.

Other considerations.
At the cheaper end of the market, most lathes tend to have fixed speeds (eg woodfast jet, carbatec etc but for more money these are available with electronic variable speed)that require belt changes.
The mc900 or mc1100 are variable speed (desirable) but you have to be aware that you can only change speeds while the lathe is on.

Quality is also an issue as others have pointed out so try and insist that they let you check the one you are going to buy and check it out or get an experienced turner to go with you and check it.

If what you turn is mainly small, it is bit cheaper for electricity to run a small lathe than a big one to do the same job.

I strongly recommend you going along to a woodturning club or similar and you will get to know what you want and there are always plenty to help you



Cheers,

Chipman



By the way, I have a woodfast mini...lines up well and I have been using it this afternoon to turn up parts for kids toys. Does what I want.

However like most turners If I could afford it I would go and buy a Vicmarc or a Stubby (My Dream) and I am also in the process of building my own dedicated bowl turning lathe.

[ElizaLeahy]

I guess I really asked for it when asking a group as diverse as this "what lathe should I buy?"

:lbs:

I turned obsessivly for about 3 years - but that was about 20 years ago! I did manage to make a lot of nice things on one of those cheap wanna be lathes from mitre 10 (came with set of equaly cheap tools). I figure any lathe has to be better then that!

I've been to the local woodturning club - and will probably join, but it's not really suitable for me for several reasons I don't want to go into here.

I'm now armed with a lot of places in Brisbane to check, and I'll give them a call tomorrow and ask what their entry level lathes are, if they have any second hand stock - and I know what to look for when I go look at them.

I'm thinking that a mini would be more suitable - as long as I can get one with legs, as I don't have a bench. When I phoned carba tec they said that they didn't have legs... But the woodfast on the website DID have legs, so obviously I can't listen to what sales people say!

Hopefully I'll be able to go look tomorrow afternoon, and I'll let you know what happens!

Happy turning everyone!

Eliza

[RETIRED]

The legs are an optional extra.

[Calm]

.............................I turned obsessivly for about 3 years - but that was about 20 years ago! I did manage to make a lot of nice things on one of those cheap wanna be lathes from mitre 10 (came with set of equaly cheap tools). I figure any lathe has to be better then that!

.......................................

I'm now armed with a lot of places in Brisbane to check, and I'll give them a call tomorrow and ask what their entry level lathes are, if they have any second hand stock - and I know what to look for when I go look at them.

....................................................

Eliza

I would suggest you think very carefully about your requirements.

Not being a turner 20 years ago i dont know what the lathes were like then but they could well have been better made than they are today.

When i bought my lathe (Hafco WL20HD) i bought what i considered a middle of the range (price wise) "try and see" lathe to see if i liked it or not. Now i want something better with extras like EVS (electronic variable speed) and better clearances/tolerances. Doing bigger out of balance lumps of wood requires slower speed than 500 rpm - i suggest 300 minimum (I dont know as 500 is the slowest mine goes and dancing with the lathe is not fun)

On this basis and knowing my own thoughts i would question whether my lathe would satisfy someone who already has "been there done that" with the elcheapo.

My advice would be to buy a better lathe now like this one GJ (http://www.gregmach.com/new_machinery/lathes/jet_jwl1642.htm) (Grumpy John) has or maybe this one (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Wood-Lathe-Teknatool_W0QQitemZ330300253460QQcmdZViewItemQQptZAU_Woodcrafts?hash=item330300253460&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318) on ebay ( would have an opinion on this one).

i just know if it was me i would get annoyed at buying a elcheapo lathe very quickly. It may take a little longer to afford it but worth it in the end.

Hope that helps instead of more confusion

Cheers

[new_guy90]

hope we could help sorry if it got a bit confusing most of this stuff is at first

just remember what ever lathe you buy your going to spend just as much on tools and tooling! thats a sad fact we all have to swallow :( going to a wood turning group even just for a few weeks to talk, use tools and quality lathes oh sharpening tools needs practice so to have someone show you how to do it is a must

anyway enough rambling from me go out make your choice, treat it hard and show us what you come up with :U happy turning

Patrick

PS Chipman you have to post that bowl turning lathe when you finish it

[Sawdust Maker]

Eliza get the ... because I've got the ...

actually my piece of advice would be to take it slow and easy
ie don't feel you have to rush in, have a good look at what is availabe
and then if you're reasonably confident you want the X - it might even turn up on ebay

It's also a great idea to hook up with an expert, that way you might be able to work out early on what tools you need, rather then spend the hard earns on some that you might not use very often if at all.

[Sawdust Maker]

...

just remember what ever lathe you buy your going to spend just as much on tools and tooling! thats a sad fact we all have to swallow :( going to a wood turning group even just for a few weeks to talk, use tools and quality lathes oh sharpening tools needs practice so to have someone show you how to do it is a must
...

There used to be a saying in the music/Hi Fi industry to the effect: "If your record collection is worth more then your HI Fi then it is time to get a new one." "I'm not sure there are many here who know what a record is :oo:"
Is that same for turning tools "If your chisels are worth more then the lathe then ..."

[Robomanic]

Eliza get the ... because I've got the ...

actually my piece of advice would be to take it slow and easy
ie don't feel you have to rush in, have a good look at what is availabe
and then if you're reasonably confident you want the X - it might even turn up on ebay


That is good advice - it worked for my bandsaw after narrowing it down to two that I liked one came up on eBay 20min from my house so it can happen...

Good luck :)

[ElizaLeahy]

I've narrowed it down to Sth Est Qld Woodworking with their mini lathe (a jet, but they have them labelled with their own name) and legs for $530 - will turn up to a 10 inch dia bowl and 14 inch spindle, so that should be fine for what I'm doing.

[new_guy90]

that sounds good jet is a well known brand

Sawdust Maker i don't know what you have but when i went and got my lathe i got the tools and the lathe chucked in for free! well the tools were worth more than i paid (i payed $350 yeah im really poor!) and the lathe is worth about $50 in my opinion ...still its fun :U oh and that was out of the paper ............there are bargains everywhere

Patrick