How do you cut your mortices?

[silentC]

Time for another poll.

How do you cut your mortices? Assuming that you cut them. If you don't, I'm sorry but you cannot vote. Unless you want to say how you would cut them if you cut them.

[Ben from Vic.]

SilentC.

I currently use the "Drill & Chisel" method, with the aid of a (Sorby) corner chisel.

I think it's the best thing since sliced bread and highly recomend it. :D

Ben.

[echnidna]

Most of the above -- it just dependswhat mood i am in

[Gumby]

I don't !!!!!!!!

LONG LIVE THE BISCUIT !!!! ;)

[Ben from Vic.]

Gumby,

shhh...I've got a whole bag of "shhh" back their with your name on it! :D :D

Ben.

[Grunt]

I use the Trend Mortice & Tennon jig that I bought in a moment of stupidity at the Melbourne WW show. Don't get me wrong, it works, it's just that it takes a bit of time to setup and cost a lot. Knowing what I know now I'd build a template for the mortices and a table saw jig for the tennons.

[Rocker]

SilentC,
I suppose I am prejudiced, but I still think my router morticing jig is the best thing since sliced bread. When my old one gave up the ghost recently, I spent a few hours building another more robust version. My jig enables me to cut accurately positioned and precisely sized mortices in a couple of minutes. Set-up is quick and easy, and marking out consists simply of making a single registration mark on the workpiece to be aligned with the centre line of the jig. My jig costs well under $100, including the dial gauge, whereas commmercial jigs that can produce comparable results cost anywhere between $800 and $3500 dollars, and some of these, as Grunt has pointed out, require tedious set-up procedures.

If you are considering building projects which need a number of M&T joints, the few hours spent in making the jig are well worthwhile. Admittedly you can get away at a pinch with using biscuit joints in tables and dowels in chairs, but the resulting pieces are never going to last as well as they would if made with M&T joints.

Rocker

[bitingmidge]

Experience now tells me that there are better ways to join MDF.

Cheers,

P

[AlexS]

Drill & chisel is my favourite, although if I had a lot to do (and if I had one) a dedicated chisel & bit morticer would be the way to go.

[Wayne Davy]

Dedicated Chisel Mortiser for me - fast, accurate, dead simple to setup, etc.

[bob w]

Drill & chisel is the go when I have the time to spare. I find it relaxing and enjoyable to work with hand tools BUT if I'm in a hurry the router and homemade jig are used. My jig is fairly basic so will soon be looking for a better design to build. :)

[woodymarts]

hi , i use my mortsing machean it work very well and is easyer that doing it by hand (what a pain)
woodymarts

[Rocker]

How come this thread keeps coming up in New Posts, when the last post was back in June? Looks like there is a bug somewhere.

Rocker

[Grunt]

I think the thread keeps coming to the top when someone votes on the poll regardless if they posted a reply.

[Caliban]

I usually try the last option, go Uri.
When that inevitably fails I stick a dirty great screw through the two bits of wood and slap a bit of bog over the screw head, then paint over it with paint from a tin opened with a Robert Sorby Chisel sharpened for the task with several hundred dollars worth of waterstones.(which were flattened with a duosharp diamond stone.(??????) :D

[MarkV]

then paint over it with paint from a tin opened with a Robert Sorby Chisel sharpened for the task with several hundred dollars worth of waterstones.(which were flattened with a duosharp diamond stone.(??????) :D
Ahh it all becomes clear now .Thats why I have so much trouble opening paint cans. Right tool for the job and all that eh :rolleyes:

[Caliban]

Ahh it all becomes clear now .Thats why I have so much trouble opening paint cans. Right tool for the job and all that eh :rolleyes:
Mark
you've caught me out.
I don't own a decent chisel, or a japanese waterstone. But this was alluding to a thread a few months ago about abusing chisels, :D . My whole post was about the dirty great screw instead of a finely crafted joint. The knock down approach works for me every time. Read my signature. :eek: But thanks for noticing.

[tong]

with great difficulty

[Rocker]

Dunno why this thread keeps coming up as a new post, when the last post was in September :(

Rocker

[journeyman Mick]

Rocker,
everytime someone votes in a poll it comes up as a new post.

Mick

[Grunt]

I don't do 'dem mortices. I use nails just like Al teached me.

[beejay1]

with silky smooth precision, indeed a work of art and a joy to behold as indeed we all do - Yes? Wait till you see my dove tails and box joints!!!

beejay1

[Rocker]

Hmm; 28% do it the hard way (chisel/chisel+drill); 18% do it the tricky & hazardous way (router table); 21% do it the easy, but expensive and relatively inaccurate way (chisel morticer); and only 22% do it the easy, accurate and cheap way (router and jig). Seems a lot of people are gluttons for punishment :)

Rocker

[LineLefty]

Ok Rocker thats it. I'll put down the beadlock jig for a minute and actually have a read about this jig of yours.

[outback]

By the time you read about it, think about it, work it all out, you'll have made one, cut a swag of M&T's and still have time for a beer, burp and ponder why the hell you didn't do it earlier.

Just do it.

Hey thats catchy, i wonder if I could sell it to some advertising type bloke?

[bitingmidge]

I think I voted drill and chisel back then.... (Rocker's jig is coming eventually!!)..but I got all inspired by one of Bob Smalzers tutorials on the weekend and chopped ten mortices in oregon.

First time I'd tried, and I don't think it took that much longer (just as Bob said it wouldn't!!).

I won't make a habit of it, but I need the practice for the big suckers I'll be needing for the new bench!

P :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[vsquizz]

Rocker, I'm curious as to why you think a chisel morticer is "inaccurate":confused:


Cheers

[Rocker]

Squizzy,

I have to admit that I am only going on hearsay, and I cannot give chapter and verse, but I read somewhere that the cheaper bench morticers don't give very accurate results. My only experience of using one, which happened to have a very blunt bit and chisel, was so discouraging that I was put off permanently. However, I expect that a quality machine, properly maintained, probably does an excellent job. But why waste time maintaining the bits and chisels of a morticer, when you could be woodworking?

Bitingmidge,

I hate to risk being responsible for any possible defections to the Dark Side. You could always come and borrow my jig, extension collet, and 1/2" spiral bit, for cutting those big suckers.

Rocker

[bitingmidge]

Bitingmidge,

I hate to risk being responsible for any possible defections to the Dark Side. You could always come and borrow my jig, extension collet, and 1/2" spiral bit, for cutting those big suckers.

Rocker

That sounds like the deal of the year!! If I guess correctly it probably even involves a bit of tuition... I'll be in touch (after the next little Midges wedding in March!!)


P
:D

[silentC]

There are three ways that I know of in which a chisel morticer can be inaccurate.

1. The chisel face is not parallel to the fence. This will produce mortices with jagged sides and ends that are out of square.

2. The work is not square to the fence. This will produce mortices that are not perpendicular to the edge of the stile (in the case of a panel frame), so the tenon will go in at an angle to the face of the frame.

3. The mortice is not centred on the stile. This will produce frames that have rails and stiles that are not flush with one another.

The router and jig method addresses all of these problems. However it is possible to address them by proper setup of the morticer and proper clamping of the work. It's a bit difficult with a drill press attachment (like I have got) but it can be done. The table must be perpedicular to the bit and on many drill presses it is not. Dedicated morticers should not suffer from this problem.

Rocker's jig allows you to accurately centre the mortice, so flush rails and stiles follow. To get around this problem with the morticer, I would make the frame stock slightly thicker than needed, make sure that the same side of the stile was referenced against the fence for all mortices, and then plane them down after assembly. In fact, I still do that with the jig out of habit. Planing is not usually required, so I don't make the stock much thicker than it needs to be.

[vsquizz]

Squizzy,

But why waste time maintaining the bits and chisels of a morticer, when you could be woodworking?

Rocker
I'm not going there, sounds like that "f" word ..."fettling"

Anyway Rocker and Silent I hear what you are saying but if I was in stirring mode I'd say bollocks, I'm not but,:D here's why;;)

We have unlimited threads on the fine tuning of machinery, lots about tablesaws, of whatever $$$ and brand. I would expect unless you are paying top dollar some (its that "f" word again) fettlin would be involved. I have used two machine morticers, one a vertical chisel morticer (older than me) and one a horizontal slot morticer (which is really just a fancy router on its side with a controlled table. Anyway, no machine works out of square or with blunt tools, thats a given.

I read the article somewhere about seven odd "cheaper" chisel morticers that were tested in the States and all but one was found to be wanting in the maintaining square/true department. Some provided good adjustment for this purpose and some where impossible. I am concerned about the market (in Aus) offering a few $300 machines and a few $1100 machines. Seems like a big gap?? and the quality needs looking at.

Having once been trained to make M&T by hand and then having done a batch job with a tenoning jig and a chisel morticer I know which produced the most accurate job in the least time.

The setup required in a chisel morticer is not really that different to a morticing jig (like the Leigh) but may be a little easier IMHO and not having used Rockers jig.

I believe people have bad experience with chisel morticers mainly because of blunt chisels; caused by poor operation. It is easy to overheat a chisel in Aus hardwood and a lot of the chisels around are garbage. However they really are quick and easy to use. I'd stick my neck out and say faster than most other methods.

Anyway, I believe a chisel morticer has its drawbacks just like other tools but there is no more potential for inaccuracy then there is with a Leigh D4, Tablesaw, Bandsaw, thinnesser etc.

BTW, last time I touched a chisel morticer was about 8 years ago so I could be talking Bollocks:D .

Cheers

[silentC]

I suppose the thing to remember with the Rocker jig is that you make it so that the router platform is square to the section that the workpiece is clamped to. Then, assuming that your router's collet is perpendicular to its base (if it isn't - buy a better router) then the mortices can't help being perpendicular. There is no set up or adjustment. This relies on your ability to contruct the jig properly but once you have done so, there's never any need for adjustment.

If you buy a jig or a morticer, because they are mass produced, the same attention to detail is not applied and so they have to give you a way of adjusting it for square. Some are obviously better at this than others. If you have one of the drill press attachments, you can easily adjust the table side to side but front to back is a bit harder.

[Rocker]

Squizzy,

I don't doubt that if you want to pay over $1000 for a heavy-duty morticer, you can get excellent results and accuracy. But why bother, when you can build a jig for under $50 that will give results just as good? All it takes is about a day's work to build the jig, which should last for years.

Admittedly, the chisel morticer gives you mortices with square ends, which may save a bit of time when making the tenons to fit, but I don't think a morticer can be justified unless you are building furniture commercially.

Rocker

[vsquizz]

The object of my post wasn't about wether other jigs or methods were better or cheaper, just that I don't think you can generalise chisel morticers as inaccurate. In my experience they are very accurate, fast and good fun to use. My concern was for people reading this thread gaining the impression that chisel morticers are obviously accepted as being inaccurate which is no more true than it is for the Triton workcentre, Jet SuperSaw, BP-16a, etc etc.

What is the best, most economical?? is a different poll, being another poll not one started by Ross:D .

A little bit of mis-information can go a long way and a little bit of inexperience/lack of fundementals with machinery can further a myth. For example, at a clients today a noticed a MK III Triton workcentre on the back verandah. Cut to the chase, the guy that originally owned it gave it to Mr Client describing it as dangerous and innaccurate. In discussion I had with him Mr Client was pleased to learn there was a video he could get to set it up and manuals and clubs etc. He was approaching the machine in the right manner. I was able to determine that the original owner had even assembled the thing incorrectly. He said "it was a piece of junk".

Have I rambled enough.

[silentC]

OK, well just to clarify my comments on the subject, I didn't mean to imply that morticers were any more inherently inaccurate than any other piece of machinery, with consideration given to quality and design of the machine and experience of the user. Norm uses one all the time and he is the champion of 'fast and furious' furniture making.

I merely wanted to point out the areas in which I knew a morticer could be inaccurate, in answer to your original query directed to Rocker, and balance that against observations on the fixed platform jig and router combination.

Heaven forbid that I should be responsible for putting anyone off the purchase of a dedicated morticer BUT be aware that they have to be set up properly, just like any other machine, before you can expect them to work properly.

Am I off the hook yet?

[vsquizz]

Silent, the areas you point out that can provide problems are what a lot of the cheap machines suffer from, from my limited observation and research of the current market.

A separate issue is the one of the angled mortice. I once made a workbench for a mate which, instead of having a lower set of spreaders, needed to be open to allow a compressor to be put underneath. I put the legs in the chisel morticer, rotated the table to 45 deg and cut mortices for angled leg braces, carefully, but no real drama.

So that goes into the advantages/disadvantages basket.

Cheers and yes, you were never really on a hook, just a mild toasting platform:D ;)

[Rocker]

Squizzy,

I have also cut angled mortices in square table legs on on my jig. I just clamped the legs between two blocks with V-shaped grooves. The mortices on this table were cut like that: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showthread.php?t=6305

Rocker

[Kris.Parker1]

I use the a mortice jig and a router. Makes it easier. If I need to I also use a chisel to neaten the job up a bit.

Cheers

Kris