Superglue vs. C.A.

[bellyup]

G'day blokes,
I was just reading a post where Skew mentioned that there is a difference in quality between superglue ( yep, I also fill up at the $2 shop with the 6 packs) and C.A. bought from a real shop.
What would the diffrence be? I like the little squirty tubes, (once you unstick your thumb and forefinger that is) it's good for a whole job and you throw the little sucker away and go again. How long does a "proper" bottle last and where would you use thick verses thin C.A.?
I await your learned response.
Bruce.

[ElizaLeahy]

This is a good question. I have yet to enter the world of CA - I'm scared of sticking my fingers to things, I do that enough with araldite!

[Rookie]

I'm not sure about the differences between the $2 shop glues and the "serious" ones, but I use CA a lot for finishing pens and small items, so I'd go nuts opening up little tubes all the time. I also use it for stabilizing cracks etc, so you do go through a bit.

Jim Carroll, a site sponsor, has both thick and thin here (http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_by_category?category_id=1107144817). Carbatec have 3 different viscosities in their offering. I'm sure other suppliers that support the site also have it. (Don't want to play favourites :doh:)

[Boxmaker]

I'm not sure about the differences between the $2 shop glues and the "serious" ones, but I use CA a lot for finishing pens and small items, so I'd go nuts opening up little tubes all the time. I also use it for stabilizing cracks etc, so you do go through a bit.

Jim Carroll, a site sponsor, has both thick and thin here (http://www.cws.au.com/cgi/index.cgi/shopfront/view_by_category?category_id=1107144817). Carbatec have 3 different viscosities in their offering. I'm sure other suppliers that support the site also have it. (Don't want to play favourites :doh:)
To have a look at a larger range and find out a lot more about CA click HERE (http://www.mercuryadhesives.com/)and then click product line (http://www.mercuryadhesives.com/products.htm)afret you have read this .You don't have to keep it in the fridge either and for someone like our friend who stick their fingers together with Araldite--!!:oo: they also have a DEBONDER can also get very fine tube nozels to get into small areas.
By the way super glue is CA :doh:
BOXY

[Sawdust Maker]

debonder - nail polish remover or acetone

Given it sets with moisture one of the best ideas I've seen on the forum was "keep it in a jar with one of those packets of silica gel or desiccant" Thanks whoever posted that idea.

[Boxmaker]

debonder - nail polish remover or acetone

Given it sets with moisture one of the best ideas I've seen on the forum was "keep it in a jar with one of those packets of silica gel or desiccant" Thanks whoever posted that idea.
I just went and tried the acetone/Thinners.It didn.t have any effect at all on the Mercury CA.
As for the mercury CA you don't need to put in fridge or a seperate container.It comes in a great bottle and self cleanes the nozzel each time you use it.I have been using it for about 12 mths and no problems with cold hot damp or anything else.I leave the bottles in a rack24/7 and is in the same condition as when purchased.
24 months @ 68oF shelf life
Unlimited Replacement Guarantee
Quality products do not need finite warranties or expiration dates. As a professional company Mercury will stand behind their products no mater what the date is or when the product was purchased. The Mercury warranty is simple.... Unconditional, and when we say unconditional we mean it! No time frames, no hoop jumping just unconditional..
Times are achanging... I have no connection with the company> I just use it and it is tops

[dai sensei]

The $2 tubes are the one viscosity and generally have very poor "gluing" ability when it comes to timber (works well in fingers though). The good stuff comes in 3 viscosities, thin medium and thick. The thin is like water, the medium for gluing as a gap filler, the thick is for larger crack like casting applications.


As for the mercury CA you don't need to put in fridge or a seperate container.It comes in a great bottle and self cleanes the nozzel each time you use it.I have been using it for about 12 mths and no problems with cold hot damp or anything else.I leave the bottles in a rack24/7 and is in the same condition as when purchased.

Most CA bottles live longer in the fridge, both my supplier and myself keep them there. Geelong is cooler and low humidity compared to here, so perhaps why you haven't noticed any difference. Up here, out of the fridge they last weeks, in the fridge months.

[Boxmaker]

The $2 tubes are the one viscosity and generally have very poor "gluing" ability when it comes to timber (works well in fingers though). The good stuff comes in 3 viscosities, thin medium and thick. The thin is like water, the medium for gluing as a gap filler, the thick is for larger crack like casting applications.



Most CA bottles live longer in the fridge, both my supplier and myself keep them there. Geelong is cooler and low humidity compared to here, so perhaps why you haven't noticed any difference. Up here, out of the fridge they last weeks, in the fridge months.
Not wanting an argument at all.
Are you using the stuff in the red bottles?A friend in Geelong used to use it till the Hot summer we had 40 odd degrees upto 47 oneday His went hard in a couple of days.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

The site Boxmaker posted has more varieties than I ever wanted to know about! But it neatly shows that one of the main variations is it's viscosity... how runny it is.

The $2- stuff is pretty much as runny as it gets. Great penetration & is usually good enough for sealing cracks in blanks while you're turning. There are exceptions, though... if you've ever sealed a crack with the $2 CA and then applied a non-CA finish (such as DO, PolyU or Shellawax) then you've probably also noticed that the CA darkens the timber on each side of the crack a bit, making it a bit more noticeable to those of us who look for that sort of thing. :D

For some timbers the $2 stuff is too runny, being wicked up by the end-grain in the crack and leaving you with a humongous dark band... that's when I use the more expensive stuff from a hobby shop. It's still called "thin" CA but it's not quite as runny, so doesn't soak in as far and makes for a narrower band.

The annoying thing is you don't really know that a wood is going to wick it up (and hence look better with the "thicker" thin CA) until you've applied the $2 lot and thought "Bugger, that didn't work out too well. I'd better use the good stuff next time." :doh:

And thin CA of any type (or cost) isn't the best choice for use as a finish such as when pen-turning, which is probably what I was referring to in the post you mentioned. Being so runny it's hard to spread evenly & tends to spray off the blank and onto the lathe, walls, turner or anything else in the vicinity. DAMHIKT :-

Medium CA is much easier to apply as a finish and, as a bonus, also works out cheaper... 'cos more stays stuck to the pen.

(I don't use Thick grade, but I'm sure someone out there thinks it's fantastic for something.)

[Boxmaker]

This is part of thier info on their above listed site
2. What is the shelf life of CA?
If properly made and packaged CA can last – 2+ years (Mercury has no time frame to its warranty). The bottle that the CA is packaged in is a vital link to the shelf life of CA. Mercury Chemist have tested over 4500 different HDPE resins and there are only a handful that can properly store CA and isolate the liquid inside from the moisture in the air. The cap or closure is also very important to sealing out the water vapors that exist in the air we breathe. The Mercury bottle uses proprietary resins in the molding of the bottle and has a highly engineered triple seal closure to keep moisture out and the product fresh. This is another reason why Mercury is the only company that offers an unconditional warranty on their products.

Back to List http://www.mercuryadhesives.com/images/arrowup.gif (http://www.mercuryadhesives.com/MercuryFAQ.htm#list)
3. What is the best way to keep CA fresh?
The handling of the product, once opened, is very important to the life span of the product. Always keep the cap on when not in use, keep the nozzle clean from excess glue and contaminants, keep the CA bottle away from accelerators, and store the sealed bottle in a cool dry place.
Storing CA in the refrigerator, in an un-opened container, will keep the product fresh for a long time. Do not freeze CA; 40degrees F is an ideal temperature. Once you open the bottle do not put the bottle in and out of the refrigerator as this will introduce condensation to the inside of the bottle which will react with the CA and it will start to set up.

[powderpost]

I use "loctite 401", and keep it on a shelf in the workshop, not in a fridge. Very good for unusual or difficult shapes to clamp. Apply usual glue and leave some small spots clean to apply the 401 on, then hold together for a few seconds... job done.
Jim

[weisyboy]

why dose it stick fingers so mutch better than anyhitng else?

[Boxmaker]

why dose it stick fingers so mutch better than anyhitng else?
Well it doesn't really.It sticks fingers readily because they are moist.
It may depend on the operator also.I dont personally stick my fingers very often.It is too expensive to use on fingers:hpydans2:
Carl I just noticed you have swinger listed under your name. Maybe you should keep well away from the super glue.

[TTIT]

debonder - nail polish remover or acetone

Given it sets with moisture one of the best ideas I've seen on the forum was "keep it in a jar with one of those packets of silica gel or desiccant" Thanks whoever posted that idea.And I still swear by it :2tsup: I've still got the same bottle of Thin CA I started this experiment with over a year ago and it's still as thin and workable as the day I opened it.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup: I only use it occasionally 'cos I want to see just how long I can make it last.
As a side note - when I used to keep the same brand/bottle-type in the fridge I was lucky if it lasted 3 months.

[NeilS]

And I still swear by it :2tsup: I've still got the same bottle of Thin CA I started this experiment with over a year ago and it's still as thin and workable as the day I opened it.:2tsup::2tsup::2tsup: I only use it occasionally 'cos I want to see just how long I can make it last.
As a side note - when I used to keep the same brand/bottle-type in the fridge I was lucky if it lasted 3 months.

Me too...:2tsup:

I got that useful tip about the sealed container & desiccant from Cliff, thanks.

Neil

[TTIT]

Me too...:2tsup:

I got that useful tip about the sealed container & desiccant from Cliff, thanks.

NeilBugga :C - I'm not Robinson Crusoe after all :shrug: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=835263&postcount=4

[NeilS]

Bugga :C - I'm not Robinson Crusoe after all :shrug: http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=835263&postcount=4


Hmmmm... apologies Mr Crusoe, twas in fact you...:B

http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com.au/showpost.php?p=835534&postcount=14

And a bloody good tip it was Vern.

Neil

[bellyup]

Well thanks guys, now I know!!
I'm thinking that for general purpose use that medium thickness would be the go?
I didn't know that moisture was the catylist for CA - if thats the case then the stuff should last me a lifetime out here!!
Speaking of moisture or lack thereof - don't know about you but I just committed a whole stack if timber to the the fireplace pile. During our summer we broke the record for the most number of days over 40 deg. in a row - 15days - max 47.5 deg, though over 50 on my back verandah!
One of the local tree loppers had left me some great looking Coral Gum (Euc. Torquata) crotches but they are riuned, even some Mulga blanks cracked and some Black Oak split! damn it was hot and dry. Well the upshot is that there will be some new flavours coming out of the BBQ.:2tsup:

[ElizaLeahy]

Still on the same subject, just a little sideline - what about that metal powder that you put in cracks and cover in thin CA - anyone got an example of that? I'm very tempted. Not that I have many cracks, more like 'OOOOH SHINY!"

:)

[bellyup]

I believe a lot of the guys use filings left over from the key cutting shops though some are very fussy to make sure they have only brass or only nickel filings.Tthen just add superglue or the adhesive of your choice.

[TTIT]

Still on the same subject, just a little sideline - what about that metal powder that you put in cracks and cover in thin CA - anyone got an example of that? I'm very tempted. Not that I have many cracks, more like 'OOOOH SHINY!"

:)You mean like this (http://web.aanet.com.au/ttit/images/timbers/wilga/06.JPG)???

[bellyup]

TTIT,
You are such a show-off!!!
Just as well you can back it up - beautiful work.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

I believe a lot of the guys use filings left over from the key cutting shops though some are very fussy to make sure they have only brass or only nickel filings.Tthen just add superglue or the adhesive of your choice.

Filings from those shops tend to be too coarse. You want a fine powder if you want that "Ooooh Shiny!" effect. :)

TTiT knows all about this. :D

[ElizaLeahy]

Yeah, like that!

It's on my list of things to buy :)

Then I'll be looking for wood with cracks on purpose!