stitch and glue kayak

[andrew29]

Hi,

I'm thinking of making a stitch and glue kayak from plans in 'The New Kayak Shop' which is an american book from a company called 'Chesapeak Light Craft'.

Has anyone made one? If so how did it all go? The exact model Im thinking of is the Chesapeak 16. I'm not sure whether I'm better off buying acomplete set of full-size plans or use the ones in the book.

Any ideas/comments/suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks

[dawallace45]

I'm building the CLC Mill Creek 16.5 at the moment , I can't comment on the book because I haven't read it but when you buy the plans you get a building manual that gives you step by step instructions that are easy to follow , the full size templates of several of the major parts are handy as well but may not be exact given that paper can shrink and expand given humidity and weather conditions , but either way very little fitting is involved to make them fit right ,

So , as I said I don't know about the book but the plans are worth the money

Regards

David W

[bitingmidge]

Andrew,

My guess is if you have never built a boat before, buy the plans for all the reasons David sets out.

If you have one or two under your belt, the book is probably OK, because you will have enough experience to fill the gaps.

My experience with books is that the plans in them are not complete, usually so you get all inspired, then have to go and buy them as well!

Regards,

P

[andrew29]

thanks guys,

I figure you are right and it's probably worth bying the plans for the fist effort. It'll be interesting to see if its as easy as it all sounds.

Definiely right about the books giving enough info to be interesting but not quite enough to go ahead and make a boat... There are plans in the book but certainly not set out clearly for a novice.

Thanks again,

Andrew

[bamccall]

Hi Andrew,
I had finishing David Payne 5.5m stitch and glue kayak build and launch for took building and break on sometimes up to 2 years last year. But I am maybe another kayak building is strip wood on later.
Alan

[Rookie]

Hi Andrew

I just received my plans for the S&G Hiawatha 14 canoe from JEM (or one of those many sites that links off it). I'm an absolute novice at this so I'll be keeping a close eye on this forum. My plans are quite comprehensive, but have dropped in a few shortcuts, like they give you the patterns for the cutouts on the plywood sheeting, but only give you one set of measurements for each diferent shape and you have to use those as templates for duplicates. The HC14 is a symmetrical canoe though so it's no big deal.

I've had a look through various US sites on S&G canoe building, and the only thing I'm really unsure about at the moment is the epoxy. I need to get more familiar with the various types they talk about and then find the same or equivalent here in Oz. That's the only bit that scares me at the moment.

It's a winter project so I can take my time all ready for next year.

Cheers

John

[graemet]

John,
As you're in Sydney, have a talk to Caporn Marine in Brookvale about epoxy, they are agents for WEST system and ATL Composites.
Cheers,
Graeme

[Rookie]

Thanks Graeme. I'll follow that up.


Cheers

[Gavin H]

Just finished two stitch and glue kayaks: a CH 16 and Ch17. I bought "The New Kayak Shop" book initially and then bought the plans for the Ch17. Since both boats had common features (eg coaming & hatches) I could easily build the Ch16 from the book. I even took an inch off the sides of the CH16 to make the deck lower for my 5'2" girlfriend (wish I had done that to my CH17, or at least 3/4" and I'm 5'10).

I used gaboon ply, west system epoxy and techni-glue. I didn't bother with the american obsession of different types of epoxy filllers and consitencies, if I wanted to glue, I used the techni-glue, and for fibreglassing and coating exposed ply I used the epoxy.

With no previous woodworking or fibreglassing skills everything turned out straight, fair and solid... I can't ask for more than that.

[bitingmidge]

Nice work Gavin!!

What ply did you use, Gaboon??

cheers,

P

[Daddles]

Very nice Gav.

The only thing that bothers me is: how efficient are those paddles when strapped to the hull like that?

Cheers
Richard

[sinjin1111]

hi guys...just a clue on stitch and glue. particularly around chine area. keep the holes as close to the edge as you can. Ie about 3 mm. what you are trying to do is pull the sheets together evenly..not in one pull from one stitch. I know it says in books to do stitchs some 10mm. but just think about it. if you had a chine with a stitch going 10mm up one side 10mm and 10mm going along the other. Then you tighten what happens is you end up with a straight piece of wire joining the 2 points. So you use a screw driver to push it in then glass over it. The trouble is then is way to much room for the sheets to move relative to each other. If you had say 3mm sheet thickness and you planed your sheets dead true. Then mark a line the length of your chine 3mm in. Then drilled holes 100-125mm gaps. when your next sheet abutts it. The wires stop the ajoining sheet going over that 3mm line. But your chine line is dead true. all you have is a very small piece of wire 3mm long. this is more than enough. it won't pull through the ply if the sheet are even and fair. Also try and support the hull and either end of the boat/canoe/kayak or whatever. allow the sheet to form a fair shape. Not flat spots due to tressels.
How do i know this...i use to build nearly 5 boats per month for yrs. But that was another life.
I also do a diff method again which is way better still. if you want to know about it let me know would be more than happy to help.
Sinjin
[email protected]

[bitingmidge]

Hi Sinjin,

I'm intrigued by your "different" method. I was going to email you but thought I'd post the question here!

Can you provide more details here?

Regards,

P

[sinjin1111]

Hi, This wasn't my idea at all. But what i started to do/ copy after a while was to true up all the chines to the finished size sheets . Then bevel all the ply chines at 45degs or more.

When you then wire it all together the inside wires shown are very small about 1-2mm and when you tighten them you can actually pull the wires carefully into the ply a little. So when you glass over the wires you have very small bump. but the real advantage you get very sharp true chine lines. The method of going up to 10mm in from the edges. Really i think is building in possible errors. When you glass the inside then flip your boat over to the outside edges. You actually get quite sharp edges. Ithink this way hasl positives.I should say this method i feel is also way quicker.
Sinjin.

[la Huerta]

how thick is the ply used in stiitch n glue, and why use wire, why not screws????

[bitingmidge]

la H,

the thickness of the ply varies depending on the structural requirements of the hull, I've built a small outrigger float from 3mm ply, and I suspect that 8mm would be getting close to the thickest you could bend practically.

Screws won't work when the joint is at a shallow angle, and won't give you the flexibility you need to align the panels correctly.

The advantage of wire or cable ties is that you an get it "almost right" then adjust it carefully as you go for a perfect fit.

Cheers,

P

[bamccall]

sticth and glue
why not try plastic electrical cable bulk at Super cheap auto shop than copper wire break in sticth and glue joined.
Bamccallau

[Wild Dingo]

basically the "wire" can be those plastic ties what you do is you cut your plank shape usually from 1/4in ply and measure in 1/4in from the two mateing peices mark every 6in or so and drill a small hole just large enough for the tie to be sent through... then when all done line the two peices together and send through the ties snugging up when all the mating peices are together... then you simply run a fillet of goop ala epozy along the mated joins when near dry snip the ties away and whalla! no marks no screws no mess easy as... in theory that is in reality you definantly have mess if nothing else epozy is crap to work with and unless your anul with the ties you will end up with bits of tie all over the floor

With canoes... The best book for plans is "Building the feather canoe" by Mac McCarthy a older yank fella who has put to gether the book with pics and interesting stoiries to compliment then at the back has put in the shapes and sizes ala offsets for both his 12ft and 14ft Wee Lassie canoes... he admits by email to having purposely put in several small errors just to see if your on the ball ;) I did the measureing marking and cutting of both sets of moulds in the living room of our last house found 3 errors straight away line up the losting batten si its all nice and fair and continue

Another thing I learnt on my first foray into canoe building was NOT to use Aussie hardwoods!! This was a complete and utter failure... however not all was lost I did learn several things that will carry further as I begin building my next boats

The first is when planking a strip planked canoe when holding the strips to the mould use... fishing line! yep good ol fishing line... first strip use a screw in each mould (this is needed to hold it and the rest to shape (and shouldnt be discarded) for each strip thereafter use the fishing line to hold it down to the previous strip...

Most builders recommend and even old Mac suggests using mega numbers of clamps to hold the strips to the moulds... I found that Id be forever waiting for the glue to dry before I could move on 2 maybe 3 strips per side clamp wait.. with the fishing line I could do the whole boat in one go!... or as long as the fishing line lasted... what Im talking about here is the strips being cove and beaded laying the cove side facing up to meet the next strip (you will of course be building this canoe upside down right!) this gives a base for the glue to sit you pour a wee bit along the cove smear it with your index finger then drop the next strip down to meet it grab the fishing line start at one end and rotate the fishing line around the strip in an under and over motion going under the first strp and over the new strip all the way along pulling tight as you go... how does it hold? Well you made an inner stem to which you lay your strips against didnt you? Well simply place a screw just below the sheer line at each stem tie the fishing line to one work it along and tie off at the other do the other side fishing line it back to the other end temporarily tie off on the screw again do the other side fishing line to other end temporarily tie of at scerw again and so on...

The beauty here is you dont need to cut ties take out staples wait eons just keep going and it really doesnt matter if you do the whole hull since all you will have is a tiny minute hole that the fishin line passed through and these will be filled with the epozy and fibreglass in your next step

Brilliant eh! :cool:

ooops back to kayaks... dont know a flamin thing about them! except theyre long skinny and go faster than I want to! :p I go paddling to relax take pics and fish :cool:

Good luck and cheers!!

[Paul B]

Man, that fishingline idea is brilliant! Gonna use that if I ever get around to building kayak #3 (cedar strip). Too busy building guitars these days tho, and they are a lot easier to carry around.

Andrew, I've built two stitch & glue kayaks. The first was a guillemot S&G from a table of offsets I found on the web, the second was the west river 180 from the offsets in the new kayak shop. If your not sure about plotting the lines of the boat by hand from the offsets in the book, then buy the plans. But it's not to hard to plot from offsets, once you work it out.

I used International Epiglass epoxy that I bought from whitworth marine, the epoxy is great stuff, but whitworths know how to charge!

Also, if you haven't already found it, check out the kayak building forum at http://www.kayakforum.com/. There are heaps of blokes there that have built the same kayak from either book or plans, they'll have a ton of advice for you.

[Wild Dingo]

Gidday Paul
Ive heard good things about BoatCoate epoxy never used it but Ive heard good things ;)