Hollowing Tool Dilemma

[efgee88]

Hi All,

I am at looking for a hollowing tool, but I am getting confused.

Can anyone give some opinions about the Sorby RS2000 deep hollowing system / bowl saving as compared to the woodcut, munro or vermec systems, please?

They all seem to use different types of tool tips, and they all say theirs is the best! I am after something that will cut soft stuff as well as burls and hardwoods more readily than my bowl gouges and scrapers I've been using so far. Also if the device has an interchangeable bowl saving arm, that would be nice too (eg RS2000).

This leads to my next question, can you cut bowls (ie bowl saving) reasonably easily freehand or is it a must to have the tool locked into a support of some sort.

I am using a DVRXP lathe, which I assume has enough torque to handle bowl saving devices?

Any comments & advice will be most appreciated.

Cheers,

FrankG.

[INVENTOR]

Hello Frank, I can't comment totally on the sorby unit, having not owned one, (have used plenty of similar tools) but there is no simple answer to your question. As there is no 'do all' hollowing tool. some are good for tall thin forms while others are good at enclosed forms. Hand held units give you feel but guided systems are more controllable. And so it goes on. The same applies to bowl savers.

Yes you could use the sorby to save bowls but once again its not going to do it as well as a dedicated unit like the Kelton, Oneway, Woodcut etc. That is why these companies have developed captive systems, because of the forces involved.

Similarly you want a hollower that will work on soft and hard wood? On hardwood you need a small tip hollower and some of the enclosed tip units can clog with shavings. There are years worth of reading on these topics, on forums. Again, no easy answer.

The short answer is, if you pick a system, like the sorby it will do some things well but don't expect everything. One system perhaps also worth considering is the latest model Kelton. ( Mark 8, comes in 2 sizes, have a look at the Kelton site, download the pdf file) It allows you to bowl save with appropriate various size blades and you can also use it with the Kelton hollowers, which are available in various sizes. Their hollowers are pretty good 'all rounders'. They don't clog.
I hope this helps.

PS. people get bowl savers and hollowers mixed up, so read carefully.

[TTIT]

Depending on how deep you want to hollow, I doubt that one tool is going to cover all your requisites. In soft to middling wood I love my Woodcut Proforme but on harder woods I use a Sorby RS200 to about 100mm deep and homemade Oland style cutters for anything deeper. On the REALLY hard stuff like Quinine or Inland Rosewood I use a triangular carbide cutter intended for steel machining. Really depend on what you want to create :shrug:

[rsser]

Yeah, you can only go so far with hand held/braced tools before it gets physically punishing. Then you're looking at captive/gated tool shafts.

If you seperate the tool cutter design from the method of holding you may get a bit clearer.

If you're handy with metal then make your own Oland-style tips mounted in round bar. Hughie's made (and sells) varieties of these - check out his thread.

Mostly I use the Pro-forme. Again, modest metal work skills will allow you to mount just the head in a thicker longer bar. But I find the edge needs regular licks with a diamond hone when turning hard timbers.

The Munro is good for beginners. You can't get a catch and the cup cutters give you lots of fresh edge before resharpening is needed.

But as posted, the bottom line is how deep and how far off axis do you want to hollow?

PS Both the Munro and the Proforme shafts can be fitted with optional scraper heads. The Proforme is pretty ordinary; the Munro is a gem.

[hughie]

Well its kinda horses for courses.They all have thier uses and benefits. But theres no Holy Grail. What generally sets the direction is the cost, you can expect to pay $2-300 for well known branded hollowers and perhaps more. Each one has its technical requirements etc and this is the rub. What love and swear by some body else has no time for.

Get down to a local club and see what the guys are using and have a crack at as many as you can. This way your experience can give some very good direction and lessen the impact on the pocket.

[efgee88]

OK, It seems not so clear cut.

I think I should probably see some guys using these tools before diving in and buying the wrong thing. At between $250 and $400 for these sorts of tools, it is difficult just to dive in and buy whatever.
I did see Hughie's advertised tools and was tempted to get the set, but I hesitated, because I have just no experience as yet to make a judgement about them.

I haven't fully considered the increased forces on the tools the further you get from the tool rest, and it sounds like a captive tool would be better in that case. I guess this is true for both hollowing and bowl saving.

I am quite handy with metal work, and I suppose it may be best just to experiment with different shaped tips ground from toolsteel, or buy some existing tips and mount them on a steel rod. I already made a tool which I thought was going to be great, but was a bit of a disaster. It was made from a cut down jigsaw blade shaped and then mounted on the end of a brass rod. I needed to undercut an inside edge for some pepper mills, but the tool just kept digging in and catching. It did eventually work in a basic sort of way.

The Kelton 8 series looks interesting and sounds like it works well. However I did read somewhere that they're not so easy to control.

Thanks for your comments,

Cheers,

FrankG

[efgee88]

Thanks Hughie,

You just posted your reply at the same time as I did mine and I just read your PM - thanks.
I will follow the threads.

Cheers,

FrankG

[rsser]

Frank, you're welcome to come over to my place to look at and try out several options. Got some home-made oland tools, Munro (std and baby), Proforme (std), Sorby RS200KT and John Jordan hollowers.

[efgee88]

Frank, you're welcome to come over to my place to look at and try out several options. Got some home-made oland tools, Munro (std and baby), Proforme (std), Sorby RS200KT and John Jordan hollowers.

Thanks Ern, that's a very kind offer.
I would appreciate that very much and I'd be very keen to see the different types available and their strengths. I will attempt to send a PM to you with my contact details if that's OK.

Cheers,

FrankG

[Grumpy John]

Frank, if I were you I'd definitely take Ern up on his offer. I was at the stage you are at now, so many options and the only way to tell which one suits you is to try them all. Ern has a good selection to choose from but beware, I came away from his place and promptly ordered the Rolly Munro Mega Kit and the Rolly Munro Shear Scraper Kit plus the Woodcut Shepid Irons Toolgate over $500 worth (all from Jim Carroll).

[Calm]

I suspect Ern is on Commission at Carrolls:D:D

Everytime he goes to see Jefferson Jim gets another order :o:o from Jeff - yep when people go to Erns place Jim is a very happy man:D:D

Cheers

[rsser]

Shoot, some folk can't keep their plastic in their wallets :rolleyes:

All you really need is an Oland tool tip in some kind of shaft, or several of them, as Skew, Hughie and others here have shown.

...

It's possible Frank will come over Sat some time; if anyone else is interested they're welcome and I'll confirm the time.

[Calm]

Ern if you invite Jim it would save on phone calls:p:p:rolleyes::D:D

Cheers

[Calm]

He will be in Brissy.

That was quick can you read minds or am i under constant surveilance:no::no::o:doh:

[RETIRED]

My mistake. He may not have gone by then.

And yes David, I can (insert Twilight Zone theme here).:wink::D

[Grumpy John]

That was quick can you read minds or am i under constant surveilance:no::no::o:doh:

I think the latter applies more so David :D:D:rolleyes::rolleyes::oo::oo:.

[Grumpy John]

Thanks Ern, that's a very kind offer.
I would appreciate that very much and I'd be very keen to see the different types available and their strengths. I will attempt to send a PM to you with my contact details if that's OK.

Cheers,

FrankG

Frank, did you manage to make it over to Ern's and try out some hollowers. I'll bet the plastic suffered if you did manage the trip :D.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

You can afford a Stubby on plastic? :oo::D

[efgee88]

Yes I did get there today. And lets see, what did I learn . . . . .

Ern had his collection of hollowing tools spread out and it was fantastic to see the different tips and types together.
He was kind enough to let me try them out too and from the brief feel of each I did like one better than the rest.
It made a lot more sense to me to get a covered tool tip, ie one that stops the dig ins when working blind inside an urn or suchlike, and you can still fit a scraper on the end if needed. Swan necks make sense when the tool tip is still in line with the shaft, and a bloody big handle is a must.
I don't know how you can feel what you're doing when one of these captive articulating arm systems are used though, but it sure looks impressive! Just don't stick your finger into the handle that holds the tool shaft 'cause it gets stuck!
Oland tools are good when you can see what you are doing, but would be tricky in a blind situation. They are easy to sharpen though.

What else . . . .

Stubbys are nice even for a lefty like me.

Ern's tools are sharp!

and Ern is a very knowledgeable fellow and a gracious host.

. . . . but I guess most of you know all this already.


And Oh yes, a visit to Jim Carroll is in the diary!


Thanks again Ern for a most enjoyable and educational morning.


Cheers,

FrankG.

[Skew ChiDAMN!!]

Swan necks make sense when the tool tip is still in line with the shaft, and a bloody big handle is a must.
[...]
Just don't stick your finger into the handle that holds the tool shaft 'cause it gets stuck!

Aha. All the basics that I'm sure everybody learns sooner or later. :U (Along with don't test tool sharpness with fingertips.)


Oland tools are good when you can see what you are doing, but would be tricky in a blind situation. They are easy to sharpen though.

After a while you get a "feel" where the end of the tool is, even when you can't see it, and know how well it's cutting.... sound and feel (of the tool) are easily just as important as sight. I love my Olands.


Ern's tools are sharp!

I should hope so! Yours should be, too. :wink:


and Ern is a very knowledgeable fellow and a gracious host.

Yup. I guess we'll be seeing you at the next ErnFest then?

[Calm]

..........Ern is a very knowledgeable fellow and a gracious host.

. . . . but I guess most of you know all this already.


And Oh yes, a visit to Jim Carroll is in the diary!


Thanks again Ern for a most enjoyable and educational morning.


Cheers,

FrankG.

Three cheers for Ern -Frank you hit the nail on the head - Ern is a great ambassador for woodturning along with a nice bloke. :2tsup::2tsup:



Well done Ern - What commission % are you on with Jim:D:D:D



Cheers<o></o>