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  1. #16
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    Woodcarving & Sculpture it is then. Thanks to DJ.

    I'll keep my mouth shut as it always gets me into strife. In the past sculpture was a higher form of woodcarving, but modern sculpture..... Now this is where I get into strife when I say "In the main, sculptors of today are woodcarvers who couldn't cut the mustard."

    That is why this forum was called WOODCARVING. It takes far more skill and ingenuity to execute a good woodcarving, than a modern sculpture. Now true lifelike, reproduction sculpture, is an all together different thing and has nothing at all to do with my "can't cut the mustard" comment. That form of sculpture is woodcarving in its highest form and in most instances has nothing what so ever to do with what we regard as sculpture today. Most of which belongs in the Art field rather then in woodwork.

    Years ago the SA Woodgroup bought Ian Norbury out to Australia for a series of lectures Seminars etc. Ian is classed as one of the worlds best woodcarvers/sculptors but strangely the Arts council of Australia wouldn't help with the funding and refused to recognize him as a sculptor or an artist saying it was just woodcarving or something equally pathetic. However..... get a couple of old fence palings, wrap some rusty barbed wire around it bend a few rusty nails in it, call it Aussie back yard and they'll probably call you a genius sculptor and purchase it for $600,000 as centre piece for their next major exhibition.

    OK I'm done...... Sling shots and arrows at the ready. Fire at will (or Neil) Will's innocent.

    Cheers - Neil

    PS I actually love well executed sculpture. I just have a real thing about some of the crud that masquerades as sculpture these days and the foolish people who encourage it.

    PPS I lied about keeping the mouth shut. Sorry.

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  3. #17
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    No slings and arrows from me (I am already having enough problems with Shakespearian references ), only agreement with the concept and appreciation of the bit of humour thrown in.

    One of the highlights of my woodworking life was attending one of the seminars you mention (Silvio Apponyi was also there, officially as a learner but I believe I got more from him than from Ian Norbury), but the SA Woodgroup is still smarting from the experience. Looks like the agreement was too loosely written and Ian's wife took the opportunity for almost bankrupting the woodgroup with her "expenses". I discovered this when rejoining it after these many years...

    The problem with traditional wood sculpture (I think we already discussed this some months ago) is that it is seen as "folk art". It is the same problem that Australian Indigenous art had to deal with. Until recently it was exhibited only in the context of folk art and could not make it into the "$600,000 Aussie backyard" league.

    Being nostalgic about the demise of the old ways, though, is not useful if that is what progress demands. Picasso is a good example, IMHO: he could actually paint well in a traditional sense, before painting people with three eyes.

  4. #18
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    Dec 2006
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    all this time l have been locked up in the shed working away just to get faces and hands to look like faces and hands when l could have got some wire and some rusty nails, l am such a smuck
    smile and the world will smile with you

  5. #19
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    Jul 2008
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    Bugger, I can carve a head with three eyes so clearly I'm no Picasso

  6. #20
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    Mar 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubeaut View Post
    ..... Now this is where I get into strife when I say "In the main, sculptors of today are woodcarvers who couldn't cut the mustard."
    .
    thems fightin words Neil
    and just to prove you wrong..................ummm .......or something
    http://www.smh.com.au/news/arts/arti...330806130.html

    what if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

  7. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ubeaut View Post
    Years ago the SA Woodgroup bought Ian Norbury out to Australia for a series of lectures Seminars etc. Ian is classed as one of the worlds best woodcarvers/sculptors
    .
    I went to his Sydney workshop and can honestly say that both Ian and Betty had a significant influence on how I approach my work and how I conduct workshops.
    (but not for the reasons you may think)

    Frank, I remember Mr Norbury sermonising about the importance of meticulous planning prior to starting a carving,

    " I have never in my career seen anyone," he said, " produce a decent carving without accurate reference photo's and thorough research,"

    he paused for a moment and looked off into the distance and said,

    "except for one fellow in South Australia who sat in the corner and proceeded to whittle away at an almost acceptable version of a kookaburra.

    Silvio Apponyi will remain one of the minor deities and major influences

    what if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by underfoot View Post

    "except for one fellow in South Australia who sat in the corner and proceeded to whittle away at an almost acceptable version of a kookaburra.
    Now, that is really intriguing. It was an owl!

    I have a strong suspicion that Neil will see your linked article as proving him right... the link betweem workmanship and art was lost a long time ago.

    Whether bemoaning the loss is in any way useful is another issue. In these cases I always quote the old joke: A psychotic says that two and two make five. A neurotic says: "Two and two make four, but it upsets me!"

    Enough grinning. I remember Ian going even further than advocating photos and rsearch: he insisted on a 3D mock-up. Which makes sense, as very few people can go from 2d to 3d in their head, like Silvio. I certainly can't.

    Besides that, he did not contribute a lot of further wisdom. When I was stuck, it was Silvio who in 20 seconds made a clay mock-up of the dead chook on the table I was struggling with. Here is the picture of what I did at that workshop. Life took over just after that, and I have not finished it yet... it will be soon now!

    I have also a salacious anecdote about that, but I leave it for another grinning moment...


    PS: While we are here: somebody suggested I dig out the knots and fill them with sawdust and glue. I am not too sure that the patch would look much better. What would you readers do?

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by underfoot View Post
    I
    Frank, I remember Mr Norbury sermonising about the importance of meticulous planning prior to starting a carving,

    " I have never in my career seen anyone," he said, " produce a decent carving without accurate reference photo's and thorough research,"
    now my 2 cents worth this web site it what got me into having a real go at carving http://www.blanchardwoodsculpture.com/home.html just love the pic on the home page .

    the only carving that l have spent any time panning was the a carving of a carver carving

    all the others l have just started chipping away and see where it takes me some call this letting the wood talk to you but really it's just using how you feel .
    When l carve l use the time for some deep thinking mostly about my feeling and about things that are happening to me .Most of my carvings are joined up with the same story that l make up when l carve ,read the life of woodsprits on Blanchard site it makes carving more enjoyable

    the closes l get to planning is l have a book on animal and human bodies, not together you sickos,

    l don't think my carving are that bad but l will leave that up to lot to judge
    it would be nice to be good as underfoot or to be able to have the time to learn the art

    need at lest just one smiley in the post
    smile and the world will smile with you

  10. #24
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    Ok, I'll smile with you. You are really on a different journey, Arty, more about self discovery than about learning techniques. You will certainly get much more out of it than any hobbyist like me. I know that my woodcarving is not "art", yours might be...

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPIRIT View Post
    .
    When l carve l use the time for some deep thinking mostly about my feeling and about things that are happening to me .Most of my carvings are joined up with the same story that l make up when l carve
    best reason to carve Spirit,

    what if the hokey pokey is really what it's all about?

  12. #26
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    if l had to pick what l would like to be a carver or artist l would pick artist
    wood is a nice thing to use the pattens in the grain is a joy
    smile and the world will smile with you

  13. #27
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    OK, you two artists and professional carver Neil, what is your take on my knotty issue?

    A- too bad, should have used a good piece to start with, leave it as an unfinished exercise and move on

    B- patch the knots and finish it

    C- leave the knots and finish it

    D- forget about carving, go get a few rusty nails

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank&Earnest View Post
    OK, you two artists and professional carver Neil, what is your take on my knotty issue?


    C- leave the knots and finish it
    let the knot be the the highlight of the piece the knot is trying to talk to you listen and let the knot be all it can be






    no really
    smile and the world will smile with you

  15. #29
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    here is what l have started now (had no takers on carving a woodspirit we can only try our best to help new carvers)
    its for my dad we all get old some time it's more for bush walking
    this one feels funny to use to start with, feels good when power walking

    Hirejackers @h%t me
    smile and the world will smile with you

  16. #30
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    I would leave the knots, finish the carving, when you oil it, the knots probably wont stick out so much as the timber may darken. And its all part of the character, Love the chook on the bench and the wash bowl.

    Donna

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