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Thread: Rosette
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17th June 2014, 09:35 PM #1Senior Member
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Rosette
Hi All,
Whilst Underfoot and others are creating pieces that belong in National galleries, I thought I would keep you abreast of what the the Newb's are up to. This is a rosette, the most recent project on Chris Pye's website (because I have no original creative thoughts of my own). The wood is Radiata (terrible stuff that..). No finish as it's just a praccy:
20140615_142729.jpg20140615_142745.jpg
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17th June 2014 09:35 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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17th June 2014, 10:30 PM #2
Considering the timber u used that's a pretty good job. Probably find life easier with some jelutong.
Iggy
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18th June 2014, 01:50 AM #3GOLD MEMBER
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All conifers have rather weak structure, Pinus radiata is no exception.
Huon, Jelutong, Laurel Camphor would be less awkward and here's one reason why:
In your pic #1, I can see the edge of the block. Notice the ring count.
When you're selecting carving wood, conifers in particular, never use a piece with growth rings more than 1mm wide. The density change from early wood to late wood in each ring
is a factor in carving as the lack of even density makes the cutting difficult to control.
15 yrs or so carving western red cedar has taught me that lesson. Anything less than 20 rings/inch is junk for carving. Magnificent clear and straight-grained and junk. More than 40/inch is really tough but carvable.
May sound fussy but it was an expensive lesson in that day and time. Bought WRC with maybe 10 rings/inch. Finally had to admit that it was basically uncarvable (if that's a word). I have other words which better describe that folly.
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18th June 2014, 06:22 PM #4Senior Member
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Hi yxoc, I know were your coming from with the radiata, I used to pick it up for nothing, off cuts from new houses being built near me. It's pretty rough stuff but not too bad for practice, the Falconer I carved is radiata and about 3rd carving I did, it's a copy of JJF's falconer. (a poor copy).
Your rosette is very good for radiata, time to move on to the better woods.
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18th June 2014, 09:44 PM #5Senior Member
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Gents,
Thanks for the kind words and advice. I know that radiata is possibly the worst choice for carving wood - the thing is that I had it lying around, so it's better to be carving with a poor choice of wood than not carving at all. Also, I am really just starting out in carving, trying to cultivate the ability to see the shapes, feel the form. The way I see it there's little point wasting good wood to just to play with whilst honing one's skills. I did a letter carved sign a while back and I used good wood for that - because the end use justified it. In short, as I improve I look forward to getting something more suitable, when my ability justifies it.
Strangely I have found that poplar carves reasonably well and has a uniform hardness throughout (no big change in hardness with the early wood late wood). the trouble is getting it (and I don't think it's very durable). There was a wood chopping event recently when they were chopping poplar logs - I should have asked if I could have bought a log off them. In any case, the radiata is encouraging me to keep the tools sharp.
Regards
Derek
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19th June 2014, 05:14 AM #6Senior Member
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That's not bad, Yxoc . The important thing is to have fun and go up one step at a time. Radiata is not the best , but it's perfectly carvable - much, much ...and I mean- MUCH worse timbers are available! Anyone who has carved ash will agree with me. Near to the very top of my most hated woods to carve (and I had to carve it a lot some years ago... ) , is a stuff called Pinus taeda, or Soutern yellow pine - an absolute nightmare!
It's a slow and painful process...the secret is, dont mind the pain.(Ian Norbury)
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Ivan Chonov
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19th June 2014, 04:49 PM #7GOLD MEMBER
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Many woods are hard to carve, particularly if they have been allowed to really dry out.
Some woods, such as birch and alder, are very smooth and soft to carve wet/damp.
Once dried, a very different story.
I suggest to be mindful of the ring count. The density difference between early wood and late wood in each ring may be considerable, conifers in particular.
Artesano: I'd like to know the ring width in the ash that you disliked so much.
I predict it was 40+ rings/inch. 20 would have been much more manageble but 10 would been junk. I ask as western red cedar is like that: 20-30/inch is ideal. I have carved 50+ and it really was hard.
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19th June 2014, 08:07 PM #8SENIOR MEMBER
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That's true RV there can be massive variation in a timber even of the same species. In Europe for instance the Lime grown in Italy & Germany is a lot better than that grown in UK generally speaking, I've always put that down to it being slower grown at higher altitudes.
I'm used to carving kiln dried timber or air dried but thirty ears or so old & have found that I much prefer to carve bone dry wood as it definitely will take better detail & carve more crisply .
I may have a mistaken impression but I must say reading through this forum it doesn't look like Australia has been allotted it's fair share of good carving woods ! A lot of folk seem to be struggling with less than ideal choices of timber through lack of choice / availability & cost of imported timber. That surprizes me in a place that big & with what must have varied climates & altitudes etc.
Maybe it's down to the continent evolving for so long in isolation ? as is reflected in her weird & wonderful wildlife , I don't know.
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19th June 2014, 10:40 PM #9
Hello Robthechisel
I'm glad my medieval falconer have inspired you. bravo
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20th June 2014, 04:41 AM #10Senior Member
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Sorry , RV - never bothered to count the rings(never thought of it , to be honest). Take a piece of Oak - natiraly seasoned one , please! - I just dont care how much rings are there - it will carve like hard cheese , hold the detail , it's a timber that is a joy to work with a scraper , a woodcarver's heaven .
Now , that Ash... It's hard as nails , and then there's the porous grain that looks so nice on furniture. It's as two hard layers of ash were glued/sandwiched together with a foam of some kind - on fine detail it will just split on you , and sanding inevitably leaves an uneven surface , as the "foam" layers are a million times softer than the actual wood. ..
OK , rant over - I just finished the glue-up of a lump of Sycamore that makes the best part of 200 pounds - let's see how that carves...It's a slow and painful process...the secret is, dont mind the pain.(Ian Norbury)
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Ivan Chonov
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20th June 2014, 06:58 AM #11GOLD MEMBER
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Other than Huon, I just can't recall what Australia has for conifers/gymnosperms. Pinus radiata was originally part of a seed exchange with California, (1920's?) to be used as a pulp/paper fiber crop. It's done remarkably well but the rapid growth and wide rings is of no help to wood carvers.
I've seen P radiata from NZ with 25mm wide rings. What goes with rapid growth is short fiber length which doesn't have much "web-strength" for papermaking.
OTOH, they do have the most abundant and stunning array of beautifully colored and figured hardwoods.
The ashes, Fraxinus sp., are all distinctly "ring-porous" in the early wood of each ring. That would be the banded "foam" that you observe.
The equivalent of lime in North America is basswood, the southern-grown wood quite inferior for carving when compared with basswood from the north near the Canadian border. Altitude for you may play as big a role as latitude. As a rule, slower growing conditions means much longer wood cell fiber lengths.
Thus a key characteristic of true tone-wood quality is long fiber. Adirondack spruce and some white spruce from British Columbia, where I live. In fact, there are 2 tone-wood prospectors in my village. Yesterday, an Erikson Sky Crane came in over the village so some guitar company (National/Yamaha/Gibson/Martin) is here for the good stuff.
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20th June 2014, 09:48 AM #12SENIOR MEMBER
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Hi Artesano.
Ah this takes me back! We used to work almost exclusively in English Oak, but used a bit of Sycamore for cheese boards and the like. The only carving on these was the company trademark - a beaver (the Canadian rodent!). I remember it seeming very 'wooly' or 'feathery' by comparison with the Oak but that may have been a relativity issue.
200 pounds of Sycamore sounds like a lot of carving!
Philip.
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20th June 2014, 10:59 PM #13
Inspired by this to find the time to do some traditional ornate carving. I did a bit once whilst working with an antique restorer. Could do with a refresher. Well done!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk" We live only to discover beauty, all else is a form of waiting" - Kahlil Gibran
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24th June 2014, 06:36 AM #14Senior Member
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I was actually a bit short - the 200 pounds was an estimation of how heavy the damned thing was - it took three guys to lift it , and I moove it around the shop with a pallet truck . In fact , a full 1/4 of a cub. meter was used ,and it's 630 kg/m3 - so it's more like ...300 pounds? When it's finished , I will lift it one-nahded , so you are right - it's lot of carving
It's a slow and painful process...the secret is, dont mind the pain.(Ian Norbury)
________________________
Regards
Ivan Chonov
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24th June 2014, 08:17 AM #15GOLD MEMBER
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Some times, the waste is enormous.
Old & dry western red cedar shake block 18lbs/9kg.
Dish is nearly finished except for some relief carving on the sides.
1lb8oz/700g.
If 300 turns into 30, I won't be surprised.
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