80" x 27" frame - need some advice on joint selection!

**6264matt** · 30th May 2017, 03:38 PM

Hi Guys, this is my first post here and it's a bit of a doozy.

I've taken on a bit of a project to create a floating frame or box frame for a large canvas print for my wife's birthday. We both love the look of the frames as a modern way to present a large landscape canvas. Here's an example without and with a canvas.

floating frame.JPG frame float 3.jpg

The thing is, it's a huge print (80" x 27"), and I want it to be strong and durable and also have a nice grain when stained and finished. So I thought I'd make it out of a nice hardwood such as Oak or Durian. So I trundled on down to Bunnings and bought some big bits of timber. I went with Durian in the end because it was the only one they had in 30mm thickness so I grabbed some 3m lenghs of 30mmx50mm, as well as some pine sections at 19mm x 60mm to act as the base mounting pieces (which you don't really see). I chose pine here because I was hoping to save some weight. In the end the cross section of the frame will be an L-shape, 50mm high and 30+60mm long at the base (I can draw a picture if this is not clear). The part you will see from the front will be 30mm thick durian and there will be a bout a 15mm gap when the canvas is in place.

Okay, so as I'm unloading the wood from the car I'm getting a feel for how weighty this will be when it is done (about 13kg) - and herein lies my question. I would prefer a mitre joint from a looks perspective but I know there are stronger ways to do this. I can only imagine the stresses placed on each corner as it is hung on the wall, from it's own weight alone.

I'm by no means a beginner at woodworking but I'm not very experienced in making frame joints so I thought I'd ask for some advice.

If I was to use a mitre joint, what is a simple and strong method for beefing it up that wouldn't compromise the look too much? I have done some searching and some of the joints like half lap mitres look strong but also a bit unsightly (imho), while some use dowels (either hidden or shown). Since I'll be using a dark stain I don't mind the shown dowels, and if done correctly I'm sure will look nice - plus it seems a bit easier for a man of my skill. I have looked at some examples of spline useage but I'm not as confident with the method or the final strength. I would be happy to try this out however if it was significantly stronger.

I have a few ideas about creating a flush-to-wall mount system so that the weight if the frame is held at the base or sides and not hung from the top - but I would still like to make the frame strong as it is lifted in place and moved around over its life.

I have a home made table saw, router table and a compound mitre saw on top of most of the other basic hand power tools, chisels etc.

Any advice, ideas or suggestions would be most welcome! I'm sure it can be done, as I have seen large mirrors hung in a similar fashion with nice corner joints and these can't be light items either!

Thanks!

Matt

**Cal** · 30th May 2017, 05:17 PM

I would have just gone with 10 or 15 mm thick timber at the width you like and make two boxes one as the face and one as the surrounding box then glue them together. The canvas should be on a stretcher frame all of its own (which if the person who made it did a proper job of it) should hold it's own weight. Picture frames can have a heavy look but most are light weight. I have a photography background btw. Cheers Cal

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**6264matt** · 30th May 2017, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by Cal

I would have just gone with 10 or 15 mm thick timber at the width you like and make two boxes one as the face and one as the surrounding box then glue them together. The canvas should be on a stretcher frame all of its own (which if the person who made it did a proper job of it) should hold it's own weight. Picture frames can have a heavy look but most are light weight. I have a photography background btw. Cheers Cal

Yes the thought occurred to me but it felt like more work to me, in any case can't go back now! Do you make your own frames, Cal?

**Cal** · 30th May 2017, 06:37 PM

Yes, have done over the years. You could run the stock over your tablesaw to cut it in half and end up at around 12mm which should give you enough to then make the two parts to the frame, mitre the corners and glue it all together sand it flush.

Most picture frame timber is quite light in weight and fine grain also. Picture framers then use a guillotine to do the cuts. When doing the mitres be sure to use a scrap waste strip behind the cut to lessen the risk of tear out.

**Twisted Tenon** · 30th May 2017, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Cal

Most picture frame timber is quite light in weight and fine grain also. Picture framers then use a guillotine to do the cuts. When doing the mitres be sure to use a scrap waste strip behind the cut to lessen the risk of tear out.

what is picture frame timber Cal? I've got a large landscape print to hang myself.

TT

**Cal** · 30th May 2017, 09:35 PM

I think ramin and basswood are quite common within the industry these days, I don't know if the suppliers here still shape the mouldings or just import them. You could google a supplier near you and see if they will sell a few sticks direct. It has been a while (10 years) since I dealt with any suppliers. A friend had a framing shop so I use to use him to make up frames for me in the end (more time effective) I still do the odd one but smaller sizes. I have been out of the photography gig for about 6 years now, most of my work went to publication rather than print.

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**Twisted Tenon** · 30th May 2017, 09:50 PM

Thanks

TT

**old1955** · 31st May 2017, 01:27 PM

Welcome to the forum Matt.

**6264matt** · 31st May 2017, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by old1955

Welcome to the forum Matt.

Thanks! Still waiting on some advice about the joints if it's out there!

**Cal** · 31st May 2017, 07:05 PM

If you are going to cut out the "L" section, mitres should be fine. Use some good glue like titebond 1 or 2. You could use some small brad nails to secure it all together, then fill the holes. How are you going to mount it to the canvas?

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**Skew ChiDAMN!!** · 31st May 2017, 07:56 PM

Do you plan on a similar finish as the pic?

If so and you plan to hang it at a typical viewing height, then why not screw the mitres from the top and bottom? At 30mm thickness, you should be able to countersink the heads by 5mm or so and then plug the holes for a near seamless finish.

Especially if you take the time and care to 'pick' matching grain for the plugs from your offcuts.

We frequently do this for stained doors & windows with sometimes surprising success... even at eye-height!

**pictureman** · 1st June 2017, 09:19 PM

the L shape(floater frame) will be strong enough going by the sizes you have mentioned, as stated by previous poster if you are worried about the strength screw from the top and bottom to hide screws, also when hanging go to you local framer and ask for a strap hanger, do not use string or wire over this size frame it will be too much for the hanging point. It will also hang flatter against wall.If after you have made the frame and you still think that it is a bit flimsy put in a diagonal support on the corners as they will not be seen from the front.

**Chris Parks** · 1st June 2017, 10:01 PM

If the frame was deep enough off the wall you could conceal a french cleat in it for hanging.

**6264matt** · 2nd June 2017, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by pictureman

the L shape(floater frame) will be strong enough going by the sizes you have mentioned, as stated by previous poster if you are worried about the strength screw from the top and bottom to hide screws, also when hanging go to you local framer and ask for a strap hanger, do not use string or wire over this size frame it will be too much for the hanging point. It will also hang flatter against wall.If after you have made the frame and you still think that it is a bit flimsy put in a diagonal support on the corners as they will not be seen from the front.

You've given me the confidence to just glue it and then screw/dowel if needed after. I've read that Durian is a satisfactory gluing wood, so I guess that's better than poor, and the pine is also there to give some strength to the join. I'm using Aquadhere Exterior too. If I do end up strengthening after, I was thinking a single 10mm dowel drilled at 45 to the grain so it punches thru bot sections and shows a small oval on each piece once sanded flush - I think it will be a nice feature since my dowel wood is lighter than the durian. Btw durian has funny sweet smell when you cut it, I wonder if it is the same tree as the durian fruit comes from?

You'll also notice that the L-Shape is more of a lopsided T-shape with about a 5mm overhang. This was planned for 2 reasons, to make the remaining space just under 26mm for the 1" thick canvas and to give me some room to install either a hanging cleat or metal rail system on any part of the frame and still allow for flushness.

Attached is the mitre joint before gluing, It took me a while and several test pieces to get a perfect 45 degrees but well worth it to have that satisfying right angle

20170602_154202.jpg

Thread: 80" x 27" frame - need some advice on joint selection!

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