Thread: Only in America

Coming from the UK with a population nearly 3 times greater than Australia, but yet squeezed into an area less than 4% of Australia's land mass, I never saw a gun in a public area, so I found it somewhat disturbing to see police wearing them has part of their uniform. I feel this can lead to innocent people getting shot at the discretion of another human being.

Originally Posted by Camelot

Coming from the UK with a population nearly 3 times greater than Australia, but yet squeezed into an area less than 4% of Australia's land mass, I never saw a gun in a public area, so I found it somewhat disturbing to see police wearing them has part of their uniform. I feel this can lead to innocent people getting shot at the discretion of another human being.

Same, never once saw a firearm apart from pea shooters and pellet guns. It would be complete madness to allow this country to go the way of the American 2nd Amendment. Incidentally, I've had an attempted mugging however it was by knife point. The assailant came off worse as I managed to kick his teeth out when I threw my wallet on the floor to him. I wouldn't have attempted this if he had been pointing a gun at me.

Originally Posted by aldav

In Australia a large proportion of gun violence is deads***s shooting other deads***s. More guns lead to more deaths and injuries and too many times it's the innocent party who ends up damaged. You'll never stop determined deads***s getting guns, but that's no sensible reason to make them readily available. Don't get the idea that it's only the people who sustain physical injuries who suffer. The psychological effects I've seen on some people are extremely debilitating. I don't want guns to be easily available to domestic violence perpetrators, vengeful people with a grudge or any of the 'one punch wonders' that we regularly see in the news. Why any civilised society would allow the general populace to purchase weapons that have been designed for a single purpose, to kill people, is totally beyond me. Americans amaze me with their stupidity - no, that's unfair, they're not all stupid, but there is enough of them to elect Donald Trump. Maybe twice.

"Probably more so in the US", look at their deaths from guns - probably? DEFINITELY! All you have to do is go to school.

There's no point talking to people who think Australia would be a safer place if we had more guns, so I won't be posting anything further in an effort to change the minds of those who hold contrary views.

Who here has said there should be more guns? What makes you think guns are manufactured for the sole purpose of killing people? I think I would have to call you on, "DEFINITELY! All you have to do is go to school." What are you saying... If you go to school you will definitely be shot? That is alarmist. We are at risk anywhere. I spent my younger years working nights dealing with drug and alcohol crazed people making Joe Average's life a nightmare. I wasn't armed. I had to rely on size and ability full stop. Would a gun have made things easier? Probably Did it need to be loaded? No. To this day, I have no idea if the gun held to my head was loaded. But it had the desired effect.
I dont think Australia would be a safer place with more firearms. I dont think it is a safe place with the firearms that are already here. Not because they are here, but because of their ready availability to "deads***s as you so eloquently put it. The number of people walking our streets that shouldn't be is the bigger problem. Their mindset allows them to make decisions that "normal" folk wouldn't entertain for a moment.
I am sorry if my take on the matter disappoints you and I am quite prepaired to acknowledge that I dont have the perfect solution.
One thing I do know, there are a lot of shortcomings that are just getting brushed under the carpet.

Originally Posted by orraloon

Thinking about making a coffee table so was looking around youtube for a basic design I could use as a starting point. Some surprises out there.
EASY DIY Gun concealment coffee table with fingerprint lock build - YouTube
Regards
John

Reminds me of cycling forums, where the UK and Australian forums would be discussing the latest do-hickey bike part/accessory, and the US forums would be discussing the latest bike-friendly handgun holster. Different worlds.

All legislators can do is deal with guns in a statistical manner. Borders are porous, the black market is real. There is always the chance that any particular person will be the victim of a crime involving a gun in Australia. The Real Politik of the situation is it's preferable to have a few victims in a very largely unarmed population, than the case in the US where theoretically everyone may be packing lethal force. It just doesn't work statistically. Yes there are going to be cases were an armed victim or an armed bystander will prevent a crime, but statistically this is vastly outweighed by the risk to the wider community of having a huge number of guns, some of which will be in the hands of psychopaths and mentally ill. Myself, I'd rather the slight risk that someone is going to pull a handgun on me than the very real risk that a nutjob is going to spray my shopping mall with an AR15. How is a handgun going to help anyway if you are taken by surprise by someone with a gun, or even a knife. Someone intent on harm with a knife can surprise someone and you're dead before you even touch the gun.

I'm not against guns, I had a couple in my youth, one of which would be illegal these days. I terrorised the wildlife more than I care to say and it is something that will be intense and everlasting regret to me. But on the odd occasion when I smell oil that smells like the gun oil I used to use I get a sentimental pang for a moment...

Can anyone fill in the astricks for me, I have no clue what deads***s are?

Originally Posted by EagerBeaver71

Can anyone fill in the astricks for me, I have no clue what deads***s are?

hit

Allow me to explain what, to me, is a deads**t; I live on acreage. I was working on my car, beside my house, a bullet whistled past my ear followed closely by the sound of a rifle shot eminating from the neighbouring property. I was not impressed,. Upon questioning the neighbour I was informed he was siting in his rifle as he was expecting a visit from a rival drug dealer to "discuss" ongoing business arrangements. That wasn't what he actually told me. He just said, "a bunch of thugs was giving him trouble and he was going to fix it." I knew his background so it wasn't hard to put two and two together. The thugs did come, when he wasn't home and robbed the place, stealing my trailer to carry off their loot. You have to love crims. How boring would our society be if we didn't have them? The neighbour has vanished. No forwarding address. House is empty. Probably back in the slammer. Gees I miss him.

What are the odds of a good guy with a gun stopping a bad guy with a gun?

Most people, apart from a few in the army or a very few police, have never had a gun pointed at them, and most legitimate gun owners have never shot a human. On the other hand, a few psychopaths have previously shot people, or are so drugged out or mentally ill that to shoot someone else is no big deal. To take the decision to kill someone else, even if you are in danger yourself, is very difficult. Even in a military firefight, on average only about 1/3 of soldiers fire effective kill shots.

So, if it's an an armed, drugged up nutter with a weapon pointed at you, versus you, a legitimate gun owner, who has to get your weapon from its hiding place and then aim. who is going to get shot? And where is your gun going to end up?

Originally Posted by aldav

In Australia a large proportion of gun violence is deads***s shooting other deads***s.

Never truer than a few years ago when the gangland shootings were occuring in Melbourne.

But the media worked itself into a fenzy: "What are the Police doing?"

Seems to me that we had a win-win situation, and the best option for the Police was to do nothing, and then arrest the last man standing.

Originally Posted by rustynail

What makes you think guns are manufactured for the sole purpose of killing people?

Never heard of anyone buying an AK47 to pop off a few rabbits.

As long as the crims only shoot each other, that's fine with me. Good riddance I say. The problem is they are such bad shots and spray so many bullets around that sometimes innocents get caught up in the shootout.

Ahhh yes, fond memories of the old country (UK), where the "vanilla" police can only blow a whistle, wave a baton, and shout "STOP !! - or I'll shout STOP again".....sigh

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Never heard of anyone buying an AK47 to pop off a few rabbits.

Quite so Graeme but the AK47 and the M16 were very popular for pig culling where I grew up. These are both assault weapons granted. In the general community, less than desireable but for getting rid of large mobs of pigs, in a single night, they were second to none.
This is why I say, to me, a firearm is just another tool. Always has been. I have no desire to shoot innocents or anyone else for that matter. But just because you dont want to doesnt mean you may never have too. Ask any conscript. Funny how once the politicians stuff up, it suddenly becomes perfectly acceptable to arm the population and stand back until things get back to some sort of normal.
As has been said by others, most people don't have the capacity to pull the trigger on another person, anymore than they have the capacity to stab them with a knife or split their head with an axe. This is a good thing, until it comes to self defence. Now you are your greatest risk. Easy target. Not a problem. Crime doesn't pay? Probably the most profitabe enterprise in the world.
Go quietly but carry a big stick.