Thread: Biscuits are Superior to Dominos! Pi is Exactly 3!

My Dad was a farmer who wanted to be a woodworker. He achieved his wish - learned techniques at night school, built up a serious workshop, and made ends meet. He got regular work making furniture and equipment for the pre-school organisations -short run production and some (better paying) commission work. I get the impression that you need good design skills these days - in addition to the underlying cabinetmaking techniques. I'm not sure about business viability - lot of third world competition is putting people out of business in NZ. Andrew, location might be really important. Otherwise you could end up having to do a lot of mdf work. If I had time and money, I reckion I'd take a year and do a good course - then see what could be done....

Young, single and have a dream. Good on you.
Dont hold back. Forget the last option you mentioned and go for it.
As to the actual route to take, sorry but I have no experience in any of it.
Would be nice to pursue a vocation or career in a field the you have a passion for. I had no passion for anything in particular when younger so now plod along in the "pays the mortgage" job.
Good luck to you.

I have considered the same options and I opted to go for TAFE to study furniture making, because I do not have the money for a private school and if you do then that may be the better way and then I always have the option to matriculate my prior studies to get advanced standing at University.

However I decided against Apprenticeship in cabinet-making because honestly I could not bear to build kitchens, covered in MDF dust.

I think that what can be taught is finite what can be learned is infinite.

You'll need to accumulate a fair bit of money in order to build and fill your workshop. If you work in an unrelated field it's very hard to get the tax benefits of buying all this gear. My approach, with some detours and delays along the way:
Became a carpenter - carpenters working for a builder will make a lot more than a cabinetmaker working for a boss. Plus, it's easier to start working for yourself, much lower set-up costs.

Over the years I've been building up my tool & toy collection and it's all been 100% tax deductible. I've also moved into building kitchens as I've been able to buy all the neccesary machinery. Having had an art and design background I feel pretty confident of developing the design side of things. In the next year or so I will have enough to extend the shed and permanently set up the rest of my machinery and I'll be making enough money that I'll be able to afford to spend a day or two a week pursuing clients, developing and building furniture etc.

A pretty long, round about way of doing it but it's working for me. Working for most cabinetmakers won't really develop any solid timber skills and it certainly won't make you much money. Just had an update on rates from a mate yesterday and on the current metreage rates that cabinet installers are getting they'll work their ring off and make about $300 per day. My mate (a chippy) is making about $600 - $800 a day on metreage or at least $350 on hourly (without needing to work his ring off). Also, the installers will be making more money than the blokes cutting board or stapling boxes together in the factory.

If you can afford it, one of the furniture making courses would be valuable for acquiring manual skills and developing design skills.

Mick

Andrew

You're going to get some excellent advice and opinions from the people in here, so the first thing I'd advise is read all the responses carefully (my musings can be safely discarded if you wish).

My personal feeling is that the last option should be wiped out. Great if you want to stay in a nice warm comfort zone, but it sounds as though you'll regret it.

No personal experience, but Sturt has always seemed a great option, and the same with ASFF. I may be wrong, but I also think there's a diploma woodworking course in Canberra at the uni there. These should give you the skills (woodworking, design, business, and marketing) for a good foundation for making fine furniture.

Making MDF kitchen cabinets I suppose would bring in a steady flow of some money, but doing nothing but that, to me, would be pretty soul destroying if your interest is in solid timber furniture.

The school way is no doubt the more expensive option, but it would seem to be definitely the more rewarding, and you may be eligible for some government financial assistance.

Whichever way, at 27 you've still got at least two careers' worth of time in front of you, and that's a long time to be doing something you said is unrewarding. Grab life by the goolies mate and go for it.

Hell, I'm spending the next two years full-time studying woodworking at a college, and if I can do it at 51, you should breeze it in.

Good luck

Des

Thanks for the responses! It seems that the sentiment is that specific direction is less important than momentum. I guess I already knew as much, but it's harder to ignore other people.

Thanks again.

Great dream. Great drive. A recipe for success in this, or any field, for that matter.

Irrespective of what way you approach this, either through school, or working as a Chippie or Cabinet Maker, eventually you will develop your own style and flavour of what you like to create and how you like to create it.

The key to it all is marketing. No matter what you build, no matter how many of them you build, if you can't move them out the door for a profit your a dead duck.

So, I really like Mick's suggestion of you becoming a Carpenter for the money, tool using skills and tool buying tax benefits, but on top of that I would suggest that you do some marketing/selling type of course to ensure that whatever you make finds it's way to the buying public, for a handsome profit.

Good luck on your venture. Hope to see your stuff in a shop some day.

As well as the full year course I have read recently that Sturt in Mittagong is starting 12 week intensive courses next year.

I have to say I think anyone should follow their passion if at all possible but making a living out of it is pushing you luck. If you fail (I have twice) you loose both your job and your passion.
I was once advised many years ago by a well known professional designer maker to keep it as a hobby and enjoy it forever. In hindsight I should have taken his advice.
I recomend finding a way to make good money and indulge your hobbies!
It has taken me 40+ years to work out how to do it!

Dont get me started on design schools like Sturt they seem to my eye to produce a lot of people with the same bland eye and lack of verve!
There are a few I know who do realy good things after attending Sturt Like forum member Alex S and Phil Gould on the south coast but most we can do without. It is my strong personal belief that design, worthy design cannot be taught any more than you can teach someone how to compose music or paint or sculpt. The very act of teaching a creative act slowly but surely eats into it and leaves little of worth.

Ross

Originally Posted by Different

I recomend finding a way to make good money and indulge your hobbies!Ross

With all due respect, mate, bullshyte. If you've a passion for something, go for it. So few even have a passion. Failure is just a way to learn what not to do and start again.

As counterpoint to your argument, I submit that the day I quit worrying about money (about 16 years ago) was the day I began to be truly successful.

Don't let fear hold you back, Scissors. I've learned (the hard way) that making money is easy, so find something you enjoy.

I started life doing an apprenticeship as a boat builder and never regretted it.
My only regret is i never worked overseas as a boat builder. I have mates of mine that did go overseas and worked in Italy the UK, Japan etc as cabinet makers/Boat builders. There different view towards woodwork i would strongly encourage you to experience.
I would also advise that you find a good mentor. Don't be so keen to get into the first shop that will give you a go as not all tradespeople are worth following. Study part time if you like as study never hurt anyone at all.
I recently at the ripe old age of 49 did a 2 week hang gliding course and on that course i met an Australia guy who had moved over to Holland for a 2 month holiday some 10 years ago. A full time woodworker in Holland he loves the work and also he says the money issue for GOOD trades people is not an issue like it tends to be here.Trust me he is doing very well!
As you say your young....pack your bags and have a go.
Sinjin

there is a fabulous 'School of fine furniture' in Launceston.

http://www.utas.edu.au/asff/course.htm

You will find no better, and the most wonderful timbers at your doorstep.

Good luck. Follow your dreams.

Originally Posted by Honorary Bloke

With all due respect, mate, bullshyte. If you've a passion for something, go for it. So few even have a passion. Failure is just a way to learn what not to do and start again.

As counterpoint to your argument, I submit that the day I quit worrying about money (about 16 years ago) was the day I began to be truly successful.

Don't let fear hold you back, Scissors. I've learned (the hard way) that making money is easy, so find something you enjoy.

Why Bull???? ? I dont see that following your passion in any way means you have to make a living at it .What is the connection?

Where did I reccomend worrying about money ? I couldnt give a rats ???? about money as such except we need some of it to facilitate doing the things we want/need to do.
Dont make the mistake of thinking I am in any way driven by money. I just think the assumption that if one makes his living doing something he is passionate about he is somehow more deeply rewarded by his woodwork than the other guy who earns his money another way. Yes it would be nice to make your living doing woodwork but the reality in this country is you will never be rewarded for doing your best work and that is truely sad .

Ross

I see your point, Ross, but the problem with having a day job and following your dreams after hours is that you will never be happy at work and therefore never really successful at it. I think this is what Bob was alluding to.

You are right in pointing out that any "artist" still has to eat, and rarely beginning artists can eat with what their art brings in.

So, Andrew, probably Mick's and Dusty's suggestions are the most practical:
a)- carpentry for the money and the tax deductions (if you can physically take it)
b)- night study at a dedicated furniture making school - with a) you would have the money to afford it;
c)- after this, formal study part-time (so to speak - from my children's experience, not much required! ) in interior architecture, not so much to learn anything more about design but to get an impressive title on your business card and get into the right environment to flog off your wares at premium prices. The stereotype is that it would help immensely if you are gay, but I have no scientific evidence to this effect .

If you have what it takes, and the quality of your English would suggest that you have at least the learning ability, in six or seven years you could be at the top of the food chain. Good wishes!