Thread: Building your own Kitchen Cabinets

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

I had a similar experience to you six years ago. We have a galley style kitchen with two rows of benches, one 5 metres long, the other almost 4 m, plus overhead cabinets.

Eventually, I decided to do it myself with some sub-contracting. The total cost, including Carara marble bench tops and splash backs, Blum drawer slides and hinges, and very high quality fittings and finish was $15,000. Whites goods, plumbing, gas connection and electrician cost another $15,000.

I very carefully measured the kitchen, and then planned the fit out in detail.
I learned SketchUp for this planning - it would have been better to have gone straight to a professional CAD program - Rhino, Autocad, or similar.


Then I prepared a cutting list and got a local joinery to supply, cut and edge band all melamine for the carcases. Used 18 mm HMR melamine. I then made all cabinets, drawers and doors. Organised for gas/water plumber, electrician and marble installer to be on stand-by. Triple checked all cabinets complete and to plan; cross checked plan against room.

Next ripped out old kitchen, completely.

• replastered wall where splashback was to go. Old plaster was not straight!
• Sanded and urethaned floor,
• Installed new plumbing and wiring,
• Painted everything - ie walls, ceiling and windows,
• Fitted kickboards to floor imperfections,
• Installed cabinet carcases,
• Marble installers did their thing,
• Electrician and plumber connected new gear.
• Lived on takeaways for three months.

two very salient points.
don't know about your situation, but living on takeaways for three months would not be an option for my SWMBO. At least two of those months would be in a short term rental.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

We have bookcases from them that have survived 25 years including 5 moves.

And you're only 28?

Originally Posted by ian

two very salient points.
don't know about your situation, but living on takeaways for three months would not be an option for my SWMBO. At least two of those months would be in a short term rental.

Hi Ian

Learned SketchUp and used it for the kitchen. Later learned Rhino, and had to "unlearn" all the sub-optimal SketchUp routines.

We seriously looked at renting but a little dog made that difficult.


Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by Simplicity

.....Also the quote for $60k for the kitchen were they gold benches.

Cheers Matt

No Matt

Only "plating" was formica or Estapol. One $64,000 quote insisted that 12 mm melamine was adequate and "gave you more room in the cupboards".


Cheers

Graeme

Interesting about the 12mm melamine. How are the cupboards assembled? Not much meat for screwing, so are they just shot up with a nail gun?

Let me toss a few things into the fray about kitchen cabinets.

When you look at the functionality of the kitchen cabinets, the cabinet is rarely wider than 1M. The sink cabinets may be wider and the cabinet that holds the cook top may be wider.

It is better to build the cabinets as a box that are intended to sit upon a toe kick rather than building a single big cabinet with a built in toe kick. The toe kick is so much easier to install and level than a single big group of cabinets. BTW - Paint the toe kick black before installing.

When you are building cabinets, the majority will have only one side visible, the front. It doesn't make a lot of sense to build cabinets from expensive plywood materials when the sides and back are against a wall or another cabinet. The top will be covered by a counter top material of some type.

The domestic engineer of the household will prefer that the interior of the cabinets be Melamine of Formica. Here in the US, Melamine on particle board is the common building material for cabinets. The Melamine or Formica is very easy to keep clean.

None of this applies if you are building cabinets to display Grandma Great's china. Then you are building furniture that will be 'built in'.


Adjustable shelves in kitchen cabinets are usually adjusted at installation and left that way for decades. It is better to build the kitchen cabinets with the shelf in the appropriate position.

So I'm not sure what photos you're after, so here are the carcasses and top. Install will be next weekend once we've picked out out the splashback tile. We're leaning towards a textured white tile. Nothing too fancy.

Not sure why the fronts look bowed in the photos, but take my word for it, they're not. Construction is pretty simple. I used pocket holes on the rails for one carcass but just stapled the other one. Once these things are together, they're pretty solid. A couple of shots of the spotted gum top sanded to 240 but no finish applied. In the long view shot, you can see the individual board ends. Ripping the boards from 200mm to just under 100mm didn't affect the grain continuity much. There are some hairline ?cracks? and a void that I'll be filling with some 5min epoxy. Pretty sure the finish will be Osmo PolyX clear extra thin.


20180517_225226.jpg20180517_225315.jpg20180517_225436.jpg20180516_202630.jpg

I am staggered to hear some kitchen companies quoting $60k+. Only Boffi kitchens would cost as much. We put in a 5 metre long galley style kitchen in January for about $18k. This excluded bench top, splashback, wiring, plumbing and appliances. Our cabinetmaker made shaker style overhead cabinets in Hoop Pine with glass panels. All carcases are melamine coated particleboard but the toe kick is solid timber. Why? Any water leak or spill which wets the particle board will swell and ruin it. The bench The under bench consists of soft closing (Blum or Hafaele) drawers, some are drawers within drawers and all drawer fronts were two pot sprayed to our specified colour. The overhead cupboards are clear coated timber.

We put LED strip lighting on the top, inside and underneath the glass shelved overhead cupboards. Our benches are all 1000mm high, the same as commercial kitchens and laboratories.

mick

New kitchen #1 Jan 18.jpg

Originally Posted by rustynail

Interesting about the 12mm melamine. How are the cupboards assembled? Not much meat for screwing, so are they just shot up with a nail gun?

Hi RN

Dunno, never got that far. Over $64,000 for 12 mm MDF and many other cheap components - no point talking further.


Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by Glider

I am staggered to hear some kitchen companies quoting $60k+. Only Boffi kitchens would cost as much. ........

Hi Mick

Obviously I am in the wrong state.

I got five quotes ranging from $60,000 to $81,000 for kitchen renewal with benches and overheads along both sides of a galley kitchen, and including bench tops and splashbacks, but excluding plumbing, wiring and painting. All included significant compromises, mainly involving use of cheaper components. And a reluctance to meet the customers needs.

My DIY cost was $15,000 without the compromises.

One of my mates says I should add $5,000 for takeaway meals during the rebuild period.


Fair Winds

Graeme

Attachment 435542Kitchen Wall Cabinets.jpg

This is my kitchen do-over (rather than rebuild). It may be helpful with regards ideas, building doors, and finishing by hand.

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...20Rebuild.html

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...nComplete.html



Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Hi Mick

Obviously I am in the wrong state.

I got five quotes ranging from $60,000 to $81,000 for kitchen renewal with benches and overheads along both sides of a galley kitchen, and including bench tops and splashbacks, but excluding plumbing, wiring and painting. All included significant compromises, mainly involving use of cheaper components. And a reluctance to meet the customers needs.

My DIY cost was $15,000 without the compromises.

One of my mates says I should add $5,000 for takeaway meals during the rebuild period.


Fair Winds

Graeme

Attachment 435542Kitchen Wall Cabinets.jpg

Graeme, the fact that you could produce your own attractive kitchen for $15k in materials is sufficient evidence that the people providing the quotes either need to, or want to, make a very high gross profit margin. For example if they have installed very expensive computer aided manufacturing equipment then they have to amortise its cost across skinny sales and find themselves between a rock and a hard spot.

We deliberately stayed away from kitchen companies and went to a damn good cabinetmaker (an ANU graduate) with an architect's design using a detailed brief from SWMBO.

mick

Originally Posted by Glider

Graeme, the fact that you could produce your own attractive kitchen for $15k in materials is sufficient evidence that the people providing the quotes either need to, or want to, make a very high gross profit margin. For example if they have installed very expensive computer aided manufacturing equipment then they have to amortise its cost across skinny sales and find themselves between a rock and a hard spot.

perhaps not,
a four times uplift -- materials to finished kitchen -- doesn't appear too unreasonable factoring in labour and profit.
my understanding is that a business aims to achieve a profit margin of around 20% so for a cost of $60k,
$12k is planned profit
$15k is materials
$8k is overhead
$25k is labour -- which at a charge-out rate of $100 per hour equates to 250 hours. Over 3 months, Graeme would have put about that many hours into his project

The kitchen cabinet industry is highly competitive and diverse. Both small and large operators are out there actively looking for business. Profit margins are extremely variable with small, home workshop guys undercutting the larger companies by a big margin. Mind you, this applies to labour and perceived overheads only. When it comes to materials, the large, volume orientated companies have the advantage of purchasing power. Fortunately, when the two come together in the market place one cancels out the other and there is at least some semblance of equality. That is not to say there are no rip off, get rich quick operators out there - there are. The going rate for kitchen manufacturing labour is about $90/hour. This can vary from $50 to $150 depending on the type of workmanship required, or sometimes, just how desperate they are for work.
It is fair to assume material cost will not be an area presenting much opportunity for cost saving, but labour will. Particularly if you are proposing to perform the work yourself. An average size kitchen, say 20 doors, Is going to come with a labour component of about $7000 min and could be quite a bit more, depending on complexity. So, if we factor in a bit of careful material purchasing, it wouldnt be too hard to reduce an average kitchen cost by about 7 to 10 thousand dollars.
So long as you are able to produce the same, or better, standard of work and have the available time, you really cant go too far wrong.