Thread: CA Glue allergy - alternatives?

Originally Posted by rob streeper

In the last reference above the authors write:
In skin sensitization studies, a key early step in the process leading to sensitization is the formation of covalent adducts with a carrier protein, thereby forming an antigenic hapten-protein complex (Natsch and Emter, 2008; Roberts et al., 2008; Roberts and Aptula, 2008; Smith and Hotchkiss, 2001). Such covalent protein binding has also been described as an “essential step” required for respiratory sensitization (Enoch et al., 2009, 2010) and electrophilic reactivity is said to predict sensitization potential, although it is not the only important determinant.



Which is what I was talking about in post #3 above. The chemicals that make these adhesives strong and durable are neoantigen formers, i.e. they will react chemically with your proteins and so on to form products that your immune system sees as non-self and attacks.

One big problem with this neoantigen formation is that part of the newly formed antigen looks somewhat like the original protein. If the immune response goes the wrong way these agents can precipitate autoimmune diseases.

Looks like a topic very close to your heart Rob, and thanks for the links and explanations. I was curious as I’m not normally a person that suffers allergies so the reactions I’m getting were confusing. While it is an area still undergoing invtestigation, the underlying message is clear - the chemicals in CA glues react with proteins in the body. Whether or not a physical reaction occurs is somewhat irrelevant as regardless of whether or not you Think you are reacting, the fact is the chemicals ARE reacting with your protein and are most likely causing damage with flow on implications.

So even if you are just polishing the occasional pen with CA you need to take precautions. Extraction systems are not hard to set up and BobL has written several posts on how to build effective units. Always best not having to regret the implications of a lazy attitude to health.

Cheers Rob and thanks again..
Phil

Originally Posted by Phily

Looks like a topic very close to your heart Rob,

Phil,

Yes it is, in fact it is now the focus of my career and a driving interest in life. (What I've been working on while away from WWF)

Years ago I made myself 'allergic' to sulfuric acid. Physicians I related this thought to told me I was wrong. Science that has been developed since then has proven the physicians wrong.

Cheers,
Rob

P.S. Organic solvents also play a role in these types of immune reactions, particularly aromatics such as toluene and xylene, both of which are found in lacquer thinner.

Physically I don't know if this is possible but have you thought about placing the work in a cabinet and working remotely through a gloved access similar to blasting cabinets. The inlet and outlet for fume extraction could be outside your work area to avoid the fumes.

If I was doing a lot of this, or doing it as a business, I'd be inclined to invest in a chemical fume hood. They're not that expensive on the used market and are fairly easy to install.

https://www.labx.com/fume-hoods?gcli...SAAEgIIKfD_BwE

Good Morning Phil

I have had no adverse experiences with CA glue - Cyanoacrylate glue, even the name is scary - but I have had a bad experience with epoxy, which may help your thinking.

Some 30+ years ago, when we were younger and sillier, a mate and I built a cold molded dinghy from cedar laminate and epoxy glue. We used zero protective measures, not even gloves, got covered in epoxy, and each night blissfully washed ourselves with acetone. We smelled funny, but were clean! With epoxy, you may not have an immediate reaction but you slowly get sensitised to it from repeated exposures. Davo got highly sensitised and I got mildly sensitised.

Now, cured epoxy has no effect on either of us but we are both sensitised to wet epoxy fumes. Davo's eyes very quickly start to water, feel 'gritty', go bloodshot, he sees spots and cannot concentrate. He also gets black circles around his eyes, he sweats, hands shake and he has migraine for four or five days. This is very unpleasant and all "treatments" have been ineffective. He just has to avoid uncured epoxy. My reaction is much less severe; I just get a twitch in the corner of my eye. It is so sensitive that occasionally I get the twitch before I am aware that I am near epoxy work. All I can do is be vigilant.

I urge you to continue your caution, and to treat this as a very serious issue. Don't be like the younger me.



Cheers

Graeme

Working through gloved hands into a cabinet wont be very practical as the placement and gluing of pieces can be quite a challenge as is. I do like the idea of a cabinet though and looking at the pictures reminded me that I have a spare hood top extraction fan - never used. Simple enough to build a cabinet with the fan mounted on top (ducted externally). I’ve also ordered some BETTER glue, new to the market with claims of it being a non toxic superglue. A combo of a safer glue and a cabinet should suffice.

If only I had access to a Domino machine I could make a nice job of it

If you make something be sure to test it with a smoke candle so that the fumes don't come back at you. Poorly designed hoods create an eddy in front of your body when you sit or stand in front of them that tends to cause the fumes to recirculate right in your face.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Good Morning Phil

I have had no adverse experiences with CA glue - Cyanoacrylate glue, even the name is scary - but I have had a bad experience with epoxy, which may help your thinking.

Some 30+ years ago, when we were younger and sillier, a mate and I built a cold molded dinghy from cedar laminate and epoxy glue. We used zero protective measures, not even gloves, got covered in epoxy, and each night blissfully washed ourselves with acetone. We smelled funny, but were clean! With epoxy, you may not have an immediate reaction but you slowly get sensitised to it from repeated exposures. Davo got highly sensitised and I got mildly sensitised.

Now, cured epoxy has no effect on either of us but we are both sensitised to wet epoxy fumes. Davo's eyes very quickly start to water, feel 'gritty', go bloodshot, he sees spots and cannot concentrate. He also gets black circles around his eyes, he sweats, hands shake and he has migraine for four or five days. This is very unpleasant and all "treatments" have been ineffective. He just has to avoid uncured epoxy. My reaction is much less severe; I just get a twitch in the corner of my eye. It is so sensitive that occasionally I get the twitch before I am aware that I am near epoxy work. All I can do is be vigilant.

I urge you to continue your caution, and to treat this as a very serious issue. Don't be like the younger me.



Cheers

Graeme

Thanks Graeme, sage advice which I take to heart. It is also exactly the same message I was trying to make with respect to the use of CA glue. I know many people use it as a polish, they have no reaction so presume they are fine. Months/years later, and too late, when they have some strange immune problem eg unexplained sarcoidosis or the like, they may think back and wish more precaution had been taken.

This has been a good conversation and a good smack over the back of my head - if I want to keep doing what I love doing I need to pay more attention to health considerations.

Cheers
Phil

Originally Posted by rob streeper

If you make something be sure to test it with a smoke candle so that the fumes don't come back at you. Poorly designed hoods create an eddy in front of your body when you sit or stand in front of them that tends to cause the fumes to recirculate right in your face.

Great idea!