Thread: Calling the Pro's - estimation of time

Originally Posted by ian

WOW. I knew the Lamello jointers weren't cheap, but the Zeta P2 makes Festool's domino look inexpensive ...

Swiss is the next step up after German. I suspect that the plunge-up-down-home-retract action is also more complex to make work than the continuous side-to-side of the domino

That Lamello looks pretty schmicko for this kind of job. Price is fierce too, and not just for the machine.



Do I neeeeeed one?? Hmmmmm.... Need....

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Do I neeeeeed one?? Hmmmmm.... Need....

Go on, you know you want to...

Granted, it is an expensive bit of machinery but look at it this way:
- No need for static machines (horizontal + vertical borers etc.)
- Setup is a breeze and it's easy to use
- The connectors are the duck's nuts
- Versatility is key: small or large pieces; in the workshop or on site; edges or middle of components
- Space saver, both storage and usage
- Servicing and buying replacements parts are relatively pain free

Originally Posted by Junkie

Go on, you know you want to...

Granted, it is an expensive bit of machinery but look at it this way:
- No need for static machines (horizontal + vertical borers etc.)
- Setup is a breeze and it's easy to use
- The connectors are the duck's nuts
- Versatility is key: small or large pieces; in the workshop or on site; edges or middle of components
- Space saver, both storage and usage
- Servicing and buying replacements parts are relatively pain free

are you sure about all those "positives"?

The video you linked to shows the holes for the locating pins being drilled with a CNC ...

Originally Posted by artvark

Thank's guy's for the welcome,

Your combined answers are food for thought. 20 hours is 1/2 week and feel I'd be surprised if I got it done inside of 1 week. I'm getting the feeling that BobL isn't far from the truth that I'd be working for $5
My housecleaner get $25/h for dusting, cleaning toilets, and vacuuming. If I charge the same <snort> then 20 hours is $500 labour. 40 hours $1000..
If I then include cost of materials etc. then the bookshelf quickly becomes pretty expensive..

I hear you on the subject of friends & family! By no means is this a sure thing. Most likely if I show them I'm serious about doing this job then they'll start backing up real fast but its worth going through the steps to work out the math before something real comes along.

cheers
Arthur

perhaps think about how the item would be delivered

assembled -- Dominos, biscuits, dowels, screws, Lamello P system joiners

partly assembled -- the centre angled section could be doweled and delivered as a unit, but you'd need to consider knock down fittings for the rest

flat pack -- it would be all knock down hardware




and if you want to be particularly flash, there's no need for visible holes Invis Mx2 - Lamello AG
BONUS and it can all be done with using the battery drill you already own.

Originally Posted by ian

and if you want to be particularly flash, there's no need for visible holes Invis Mx2 - Lamello AG
BONUS and it can all be done with using the battery drill you already own.

Only attempt that if you can achieve sub-millimetre precision in all your layout and boring. I found out the hard way that if one hole is the slightest bit off it won't work. They're also about $4 per connection (pair of male and female)...

I think the "starter" kit is close to $1000 AUD

Originally Posted by ian

The video you linked to shows the holes for the locating pins being drilled with a CNC ...

There's a difference between linking to a page vs linking to a video. My reasons related to the Zeta P2, given the previous replies.

If you have a CNC, then as a bonus, you can incorporate it (P-System with CNC) into your fabrication and simplify your workflow even further.

Originally Posted by Junkie

There's a difference between linking to a page vs linking to a video.

this is something that I'm not really on top of. Others might be able to link to a video, the most I can achieve is linking to the page which contains the vid.


but I'd rather follow up on this bit

Originally Posted by Junkie

If you have a CNC, then as a bonus, you can incorporate it (P-System with CNC) into your fabrication and simplify your workflow even further.

the video showed the cutter being located via pins engaging in a pair of alignment holes. The accompanying joint layout diagram seemed to imply that the locating holes are an integral part of using the system.
as a user of the system, can you advise if my impression correct, or can the P-system cutter be registered in a similar manner to registering a regular biscuit joiner?
also, is there a diagram that explains how the cutter works? I get that the machine cuts a T shaped slot, what I don't get is how a plunging blade can cut the T shape.

Originally Posted by ian

the video showed the cutter being located via pins engaging in a pair of alignment holes. The accompanying joint layout diagram seemed to imply that the locating holes are an integral part of using the system.
as a user of the system, can you advise if my impression correct, or can the P-system cutter be registered in a similar manner to registering a regular biscuit joiner?

Locating holes just make it easier, but you don't need a CNC for those. Depending on one's drilling skills, this can be done free hand or by using templates/jigs/stencils etc. Having said that, we rarely use locating holes and we have a CNC + jigs etc...
Check out this video:

Originally Posted by ian

also, is there a diagram that explains how the cutter works? I get that the machine cuts a T shaped slot, what I don't get is how a plunging blade can cut the T shape.

As elanjacobs mentioned in his post (#17), it's a "plunge-up-down-home-retract action". Check out this video:

Thanks

Originally Posted by Junkie

Check out this video:

now that is clever and would seem to be the answer to the OP's (Arthur) need for a quick joining solution

thank you for posting

Ohhhh, I really wish that I hadn't watched those videos...

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Ohhhh, I really wish that I hadn't watched those videos...

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Do I neeeeeed one?? Hmmmmm.... Need....

yep




and being serious, given the type and volume of work you do can you afford not to have one?