Thread: Calling the Pro's - estimation of time

If it was all squares, I'd say 20 hours for one, but that's with a panel saw and edgebander. Pin-and-cam construction so there are no visible screws, or you could dowel and glue.

The angled section however....

Cutting it is no problem, just tilt the saw blade, but the set-out of angled pin-and-cam fasteners is not a job I would be looking forward to - did it once and that was once too many. Allow a good few hours for trial-and-error positioning (the Hafele book does give a whole table of dimensions for various angles, but when I tried it, it didn't quite work) and layout.

Also, remember the golden rule: "Don't work for friends or family". If you're not 100% sure you can deliver what they think you can, it's not worth the heartache.

That's my 2c

I'd say 20 hours is about right for something like that for a decked out shop with space to move the case around/finishing. For a home shop i'd probably add an additional 10-15 hours.

In terms of constructing the thing, IMO it looks more complicated than it actually is. I'd start by making the angled bits and build everything else around it, the bulk of the time will be used up making the first one. One you've gotten the dimensions of everything the 2nd and 3rd won't be as difficult.

I also agree with elanjacobs, family/friends have no real value for your time so be prepared to work for next to nothing. eg my wife is abit of a painter, she'll have ppl pop around and see one of her paintings on our wall. I've lost count of the number of times she's been asked if she'll do a painting for them, not once has someone asked how much it'll cost.

Congrats on your first posting.
Sorry I can't help much with a time estimate - except for going on my past history I'm lucky if I end up working for more than $5/hr.
And don't forget to add the time spent driving around to pick up material and fasteners etc.

While it has a very interesting look about it, the design is somewhat inefficient for compact book storage which is probably why angled storage is rarely used.
Efficient book storage shelving uses adjustable height shelves, and those angles effectively remove some of the horizontal storage space.
The triangular spaces at the top and bottom are more or less completely wasted for books although they could of course be used for nick-nacks.
Either way, good luck with the project.

A friend who is a successful cabinet maker / contractor and a community college department head / instructor once said:

Any cabinet with angles, double the price.
Any cabinet with curves, quadruple the price.
It's worth thinking about.

In that book shelf, you're going to have to build the shelves, dry fit and trim to the exact ¼ mm and then build the case around the shelves. I'm not sure if dowels or angled dadoes would be the best construction method.

Welcome to the forum Arthur.

Thank's guy's for the welcome,

Your combined answers are food for thought. 20 hours is 1/2 week and feel I'd be surprised if I got it done inside of 1 week. I'm getting the feeling that BobL isn't far from the truth that I'd be working for $5
My housecleaner get $25/h for dusting, cleaning toilets, and vacuuming. If I charge the same <snort> then 20 hours is $500 labour. 40 hours $1000..
If I then include cost of materials etc. then the bookshelf quickly becomes pretty expensive..

I hear you on the subject of friends & family! By no means is this a sure thing. Most likely if I show them I'm serious about doing this job then they'll start backing up real fast but its worth going through the steps to work out the math before something real comes along.

cheers
Arthur

If you want to give yourself a real scare try including the cost of

Machinery depreciation, wear, repairs
Cost of space and buildings
Power
Insurance (contents, building, public liability) - what happens if a child climbs the bookcase and pulls it over on themselves?
ETC

I love doing things up in Sketchup and 3DStudio... which this clearly is.

I agree with Elan - this is no trivial job. In fact, Id regard it as impossible. It is no flat pack.

You could do most of it with dowelling, but that top right hand shelf... eeee.

The accuracy needed for those angles and lengths boggle the mind. Everything I look at needs hyper-accuracy....This is no quick job.

I'd be happy to do a "pull apart" Sketchup for you.

It will be interesting to see how others might build it.

Originally Posted by woodPixel

In fact, Id regard it as impossible. It is no flat pack.

Hafele do hinged pin-and-cam fittings for angled joins; flat pack is definitely an option (I think it's the best option because it requires no glue or clamping on weird angles), in fact I can visualise the construction already.

The trick is to build it from the middle outwards; assemble the angled section, then the square shelves coming off it, then the top and bottom (might require loosening some of the other cams to allow enough flex for the angled and straight pins to all slide in together), finally the sides.

Im looking at the catalogue now. There are only 147 choices

Im stopping for the day (Im exhausted from the week) and I fear this will grip me!!!

Tell your wife that you'd need a domino to build it properly

Materials wise, artvark should plan on building 4 units.

one to work out the processes and drilling angles, the other three for his clients.

my assumption is that it is all either MDF or particle board wrapped in either paper or vinyl veneer.

IMO, the colour combination is what makes the piece.

Time wise, the first unit will take "forever", the subsequent units "no time at all"

if artvark goes ahead, my suggestion is to do a full sized drawing on 6 or 9 mm MDF before cutting anything

not sure about Australia but this unit is too expensive to build unless you have access to a multiple axis late model CNC and an operator who doesnt mind to spend time programming it.

if it is all programmed, this can be cut and assembled in a matter of 1-2 hours.

I think it will take over 2 weeks to build if you work 1 hour a day and 6-10 hours on Sat/Sun.

your situation reminded me when my first customer asked to make her a piece of furniture. I had to purchase a 20k machine to make what she want though. i went ahead with the purchase. it took me over 100 hours to design and build, regret? no, not at all, it only take me less than 12 hours to make the same item now a day, I am so busy these days I will have to employ someone soon, what started as a hobby has turned into a business.

As already mentioned, not as easy/straightforward as doing 90° or 180° joins. So often people want something custom made, but at standardised/mass produced pricing.

We use biscuits over pin and cams or dowels. And for angled work like this, we use Lamello's P-System (click on the 'Connection fittings' tab).