Thread: Cordless Drill/Driver

Hi HBomb,
Tassie Kiwi has put a reference to a comparison of Festool C-12 v 18V cordless drills in the Festool forum. I take Festools marketing with some grains of salt, but it might be worth a look.

Regards

Rob

I dont know if this is true, but Ive heard on the grapevine that Festool turned to Panasonic to provide them with the batteries for their drills. Anyone know if this is BS?
It would make sense, Panasonic makes the best batteries
I reckon Panasonics new BM range (brushless motor) would give any top of the range drill a run.

As for Makita, they were the best at the beginning of the battery drill revolution. Slowly been overtaken now, but not middle of the road IMO

Originally Posted by rod1949

Jeez you're getting touched... $200. My GMC 24v was $108.

They don't make an 18v impact,remember we are talking impact driver,no silly old cordless drill.

You will only see these owned by pros over there,I note a few amateurs on here don't know how they work.

Wondering out loud, wonder what they're going to call "impact drivers" in the mechanical game now that impact drivers are officially some sort of percussion drill/driver .
Geez now I'll have to ask my mechanic mate to pass me the really powerful bolt, nut & screw undoer that uses a rotary impact action, we can't call it what it has been for decades, because it's not really an impact driver because some company recently (last few years possibly) decided to call a new type cordless driver that instead, and because it was (re)named by a larger conglomerate it must be correct, and because it works so well with that name it must be one, and us stupid Aussies who've been using impact drivers on mechanical items for the past few decades won't know which was which.


The above is should be taken as sarcasm, cause that is what it is


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_driver

I have been using a festool 15.6 volt unit for about a year now and have been most satisfied. At the time of buying I spent about twice what i went into the shop expecting to spend. Although the offset and right angle attachments don't get alot of use they have been very worthwhile. the rest of the workshop seems to think so anyway.

Originally Posted by Brian 1520

I note a few amateurs on here don't know how they work.

Now that is not very nice

Just because, as E.maculata has pointed out, that the term Impact Driver is now used for a new form of screwdriver, doesn't give grounds to call us amateurs.

Originally Posted by Brian 1520

..................You will only see these owned by pros over there,I note a few amateurs on here don't know how they work.

I know what they are, I've used them and, as a "pro" I'm totally underwhelmed by them. Of the hundreds of thousands (millions maybe?) of screws that I've driven using cordless drills over the years I reckon I've sheared or cammed out less than a hundred. The few times that I used a impact driver I found that they excell at shearing off the heads of stainless screws and while they don't cam out that easily I've never found it much of a problem. If you're using a cordless with enough torque and you keep it properly aligned whilst applying plenty of pressure cam out isn't an issue. Builder whose kitchens I was doing bought himself one and was similarly unimpressed. I reckon that possibly the blokes that swear by them didn't know how to drive screws in the first place. (running to get my flameproof suit now )

Mick

Originally Posted by underused

.......................As for Makita, they were the best at the beginning of the battery drill revolution. Slowly been overtaken now, but not middle of the road IMO

I'd dispute that, years ago you could get a Makita 7.2 or 9.6V cordless and that was about it. A bloke I worked for years ago had an old 9.6V Panasonic but I was pretty unimpressed because the batteries were no good anymore. I bought a Ryobi 12V which had more power than any cordless on the market at the time. It would easily drive a 14 gauge 100mm batten screw into hardwood whilst the makitas wouldn't even look at it. Bit hard to believe now when you look at what Ryobi is producing now.

Mick

Don't worry too much about needing a flame-proof suit there Mick!
Think one "amateur" comment deserved the other.

Hmm...

If I were going to buy a new cordless drill (I'm not), I'd be asking myself a few questions before I started considering any brands or models.

1: Which battery chemistry is for me?

2: What kinda budget do I have?

3: How much power is enough?

4: What features do I need, and which are luxuries?

1- If you are going to use the drill day in, day out, then go for quality and whatever kind of battery floats your boat. If it's going to be used on the weekend, every week end, then Nicads are fine, NiMH are so-so, Li-ion is good. If it's going to sit for a month, then aim for Li-ion.

The reasons for these choices are simple. Number of cell cycles and self-discharge rate.

Li-ion will sit quite happily for 3 months or so and won't be hurt. Nicad for 1 month or so, NiMH for about 2 weeks. Leave them longer without charging and kiss the valuable batteries goodbye. This is after the first charge, virgin batteries (never charged) are not affected.

Nicad has a 650-1000 cycle life, NiMH has 300-500, and Li-ion in excess of 1000 cycles before performance starts to really suffer.

But...

Nicads last for a long time and will handle much abuse. NiMH is more fragile, but most folks won't notice. Li-ion is quite strong, but when they get long in the tooth, they die regardless of what you do. Things are improving, but they get old faster. Were are talking a couple years here, easy enough to clock up, and the time gets shorter the hotter things are.

Basically, there is no free lunch.

2: Budget, is up to you. The big $$$ does not garantee the best weapon for the job however. Plenty of lower priced drills will do the job better in many cases than the mega-buck versions. Even reverting to old technology is a better option, which means a cheaper tool.

3: For me, I won't go over 14.4V on a drill used to drill holes and drive screws. That's enough grunt for me, and it's enough weight for me to handle. If I need more, I grab a lead and a tailed drill.

I say that as someone who has driven tens of thousands of various size and types of screws into various materials.

4: This is up to you. I like a good keyless chuck and a clutch of some kind. I want fast charging, and a charger I can leave a battery in, knowing it's going to be ready to go any time I remove it from the charger. I like 2 speeds and an easy to operate reversing switch.

That's what I want.


I currently use a 12V Hitachi that came with 2 batteries (Nicad) and a 1 hr. charger. Cost $100 and it's great for me.

I have owned/used Makita, DeWalt (several, warranty jobs), Bosch, AEG/Milwaukee, Panasonic, Festo, Metabo, Hitachi, GMC and Hilti.

I would buy Panasonic (Stolen), Milwaukee (Can't use it here), Makita (First real drill) or Hitachi (Using it) again.

I would not buy/use DeWalt, GMC or Metabo...


Hope that helps.


(If I had an unlimited drill budget, I'd be walking into the tool shop and buying a Makita or Panasonic right now. Hope that muddies the water some more)

Schtoo,
why can't you use the Milwaukee over there? (I'm guessing it's just a voltage issue?)

Mick

Yep, the charger won't run on 100V, 240V only.

Pity since it was only 6 months old when I first came over here. No biggie, dad uses now and often. The batteries are starting to go off now anyways.

My powered "impact" Bosch is about 20 years old and my Makita 9.6v cordless about 15 y.o. and they don't stop working. I drop them - torture them and they won't die.

I'm blown away with all this new information.

Now I really really want a Panasonic or Triton with all these new goodies and great features. Someone here said that "real men can't have enough planes".

What about Drills??? How do I justify to SWMBO to buy one of these beauties?

Originally Posted by journeyman Mick

I know what they are, I've used them and, as a "pro" I'm totally underwhelmed by them. Of the hundreds of thousands (millions maybe?) of screws that I've driven using cordless drills over the years I reckon I've sheared or cammed out less than a hundred. The few times that I used a impact driver I found that they excel at shearing off the heads of stainless screws and while they don't cam out that easily I've never found it much of a problem. If you're using a cordless with enough torque and you keep it properly aligned whilst applying plenty of pressure cam out isn't an issue. Builder whose kitchens I was doing bought himself one and was similarly unimpressed. I reckon that possibly the blokes that swear by them didn't know how to drive screws in the first place. (running to get my flameproof suit now )

Mick

Not sure what to say to you Journey,only to say put your point to the lot in here and see what USA have to say.
All the pros I have suggested try an impact much prefer,mainly due to no impact on wrist.

http://www.sawmillcreek.org/

I say the above,due to better point of view from a wider audience.