Thread: Corner cabinet door problem

Whilst not understanding all your terms fully, and no images to assist, I would suggest an additional hinge at the top of the door.

Mike it depends to some extent on the brand of your main 165 degree hinges.

The weight of that second door hanging off the first as you have found out strains the hinge and it won't pull up the 2nd one closed.

You can buy those hinges for 50c each - or $4.50 each...

There's a difference in the quality of them - the 50c ones will get a commercial cabbie thru the 6 months warranty period, while the $4.50 pair will last 10 times as long and swing a hole lot more weight before they strain.

What you MAY well be getting is the first door "twisting" within itself under the weight of the second door it is carrying.

Those 165 hinges should have 2 adjustments (side to side and in and out)

You will have to "throw the door on the hinge" for the first door - to "compensate for the twist" in it supporting the weight of the 2nd door hung off it.

"Throwing a door on it's hinge" - is a term fixing carpenters usually employ when hanging doors - when the jamb or frame is out of wynde (rhymes with "wined & dined").

If the two legs of the door jamb/frame are not dead plum....then when you try and close the door in the frame - either the top or bottom corner hits the rebated door stop, before the other & you end up having to push (twist the door) to get the striker to hit its striker plate and catch to keep the door closed. Also when you open the door - as the plunger is withdrawn the imparted twist in the door "pops" it open...

The solution is to throw the door on its hinge... which means move the hinge fixing to the frame, out or in at the top or bottom until the door when closed matches the out of Wynde frame / jamb.

Essentially you will have to do this...to your cabinet door to compensate for the twist the weight of the 2nd door is imparting to the first!

The sideways movement is of no use to you for this - ONLY the in out adjustment.... and to set this you have to loosen the securing/locking screw and turn the "throw screw" inwards to push the hinge away from it's mounting plate THEN lock the screw that keeps it there.

You can't get the amount of throw you will need without loosening that locking screw first.

I always found that Blum brand hinges were worth their extra cost for their ability to hold the weight of solid fielded panel doors & their adjust-ability to be "thrown".

But unless you understand that the locking screw limits the travel of the throw screw you won't get the amount of adjustment you likely need.

You wont "throw" the hinge far enough to pull the 2nd door hung off it closed flat to the face of the cupboard unless you back the locking screw off and adjust the throw & THEN tighten it back up again.... so there's 2 screws to adjust to achieve that.



If you mount the 2nd door with these rather than piano hinge or butt hinges - you get a 2nd degree of adjustment...on the 2nd door.



That threaded screw with no head to the right with the crossed slot is the throw mechanism - but you can't get full travel on it without loosening th one on the left - and you can see the 3rd screw in the pic that then locks the hinge to its backing plate.

Hope that makes some sense.

Its a crazy azzed system but it does work if you understand it.

When you throw the first door to compensate for the twist within it due to the weight of the second door - they never look "right" at the bottom corner usually. The answer is to design the cupboard differently to avoid that corner door situation with no mullion.

Its "better" IMHO to have a 45 degree box unit in the corner with its own single door & 2 x 22.5 degree "voids" either side of that before returning to the next boxed carcass unit.

That corner space is wasted anyway - everything gets lost back in there - its dark & you cant see anything in there, the wife has to grovel on her hands and knees to get at anything way back in there (which is no good if they are old for e.g.)

It's better to avoid that situation that mess with double hung doors IMHO if you can.

Yes I know you can get corner lazy susan's to fit in there...still better avoided IMHO - stuff falls off them... and you end up back on the hands and knees back in there to retrieve it.

It's all about the design of the cabinets in the first place.

As always - others mileage will no doubt vary.

Thanks Timless, that's a fantastic response.

The 165 degree hinges are grass hinges (soft close) and the pie cut hinges are blums.

It doesn't appear to me that the hinges are the problem - the hinge side of the fixed door doesn't move. I think the door is twisting under the strain of door number 2. I have tried "throwing" the hinge as much as I can - basically adjusting the bottom hinge out, and the top hinge in to counteract the twist - with no significant effect. You've given me a few extra things to try though - so i will give it a shot.

The other option I have is to change the doors around - because currently door #2 is the bigger and heavier door. If I swap them around, then door #1 might not be heavy enough to twist it.

As for alternatives - I like the big pull out 45 degree corner drawers - it might just be a case of convincing the wife to give up some of the space. I seem to be winning at convincing her so far. If you're in Perth, can you recommend a good place to go to get hardware for large corner drawers like that - at the moment the wife is thinking of two half-height drawers rather than one big one.

Handyjack - I've uploaded some photos for you (hopefully). If you look in the second one, you can see the misalignment of the door with the drawers next to it.

IMG_8605.jpgIMG_8604.jpgIMG_8603.jpg

Not sure if they still trade - M & B sales?.

Building Supplies Perth - M&B Quality Building Products (Mal & Brian?) can't remember now - my old man had an account with them from day 1 when they first started out together.

Couple more possibilities for you.

1. You COULD retrofit a mullion down the side of the cabinet where the drawers are and hang that 2nd door from the Mullion. However you wont get away with that with that handle furniture which is proud of the door front. Thats why those slots on top of the door rail were so popular at one point they allowed internal corner doors to open past each other.

or

2. Maybe try a strong magnet catch set in flush at the top inside corner of the first door, (and matching steel strip set into the face of the cabinet) so that when you close the first door the magnet pulls the top corner of the door fully back into place, flush with the cabinet carcass face - and removes the twist out of the door - then the 2nd door should hang properly into place. These new rare earth neodymium magnets have amazing strength & can probably cope with that amount of twist and gravity. That said wifey might develop atlas arms opening it every time...

The thing is - if you don't close the corner 2 door set carefully, the 2nd door will always hit the draw corners on the way in and mar the finish.
No one closes them carefully every time - not kids nor visitors who aren't aware.
The photos tell the story and yes those Jarrah fielded panel doors of that size will twist under that weight every time in a 2 door combo...
They were all the rage at one point... did some myself that way early on.... but was never happy with it long term.

Easy to have 20/20 vision in hindsight.

The corner 45 drawers probably make more sense.

I think the drawers are the only way to go - thanks for the idea. I will have to start working on the modifications to the cabinets.

Unfortunately they've been in place for 20 years, so this may take some effort.

Thanks for the help.

I spent some time with a cabinet maker who concentrated mainly on kitchens and bathrooms. We did mainly coated MDF doors but some timber raised panel doors.

Some suggestions, check whether the door that is sandwiched betwen the carcass and second door is not being twisted by the weight of the outer door. If you have stripped the doors, you may have weakened the structure or glue bond allowing the door to twist under load.

Secondly, if the door is not twisting, consider adding a third hinge to hang the door and take some of the weight. The higher end hinge manufacturers publish charts relating to door height, weight and the number of hinges required to support the weight properly, it this case you need to use the combined weight of both doors and the intermediate hinges. We could normally get away with two primary hinges for a base cabinet but the doors were somewhat smaller for corner cabinets than what you are showing in your pics, and the jarrah RP doors would be heavier than the coated MDF ones we generally used.

If you have reused the hinge mounting holes from the original hinges, check that the carcass surface is totally smooth under the mounting plates. Often the carcase material can pull out when the mounting plates are being replaced, preventing the new plates from mounting tightly to the surface. This is more prevelent at the top hinge (which is in tension to hang the door in the closed position), than the lower hinge (which is in compression).

Hi all,thanks for the ideas on this. I tried all your ideas, and yeah, it simply looked like the door was twisting. I couldn't get it to work. And as the external handles were part of the reason for the refinish (without handles, the tops of the doors got too grubby for the wife), I changed it over to two large corner drawers at 45 degrees. I think the result worked out quite well.Cheers for all the help!

Too late now but there is a roller that gets mounted on the second door which takes the weight of the door when closed and ensures the alignment. They are pretty common but I can't find a link, maybe because I don't know the proper term for them

Tools

http://kaboodle.com.au/au/images/nao..._Insert-V7.pdf

Here is a link showing them mounted to the side of the door rather than the bottom.

Tools

The type of corner door catch that Tools describes is the way to go they hold the main door back in position so the free door can hang correctly. There are a couple of varieties of this type of catch cabinet hardware suppliers should be able to help you or cabinet shop in you're area.
Regards Rod.