Thread: cost of these tools

G'day Rhys, you been busy at school?
Many tools can be picked up 2nd hand at sales, flea markets, and through newspaper ads. Trying to put a price on everything is going to be difficlt unless you are prepared to find out new price for each article and work back from there.
With new prices you know what an absolute cost will be, and it will be staggering.
See how you go with this approach. Then look for 2nd hand stuff and buy what you can that is in good order at a good price.
Another advantage with 2nd hand tools is that you get a chance to pull them appart, clean repair and fettle them You will learn a lot by doing this.

thanks. yeah second hand will more than likely be the way, but i think i should look around and find a rough price for them brand new, and as you said, work back fomr there. apart from these tools i need drawing equipment and books, etc. by busy at school do you mean my major projects. i am gonna update them now.lol

G'day Rhys,

I'm surprised they didn't ask you for a No.6 or at least a 5 1/2 plane.

Buy your tools second hand - www.hansbrunner.gil.com.au is a good spot to start. You don't want collector grade prices - look at the user tools.

Buy a new Engineers square in a reputable brand - or make sure that a brand new, cheaper one's dead on accurate - and look after it. Once you drop them once, there's a good chance they're not square any more. No guarantee with a second hand one. Yes, they can be repaired, but at what cost.

Tell you what, if you get in, you can have a No6 plane for the cost of postage that's no oil painting but is flat and square (I've got too many of the barstewards and it's in the way.) The sole's pitted but it's no dramas, it's flat where it counts and it works just as well as a $600 Lee Nielsen plane.

For the rule, you do not want a mirror grade finish. Get the matte finish rule as a must. (Satin finish it could be also be called.) Reflections are an absolute bugger and interfere no end with reading a rule. As well, get a 6" rule in satin finish in the tool shop - the etched $2- cheapie (not a printed scale) should be OK. Test it against the Quality Assured Toledo 12"/300mm rule. If they read the same, buy the 6" rule as well. The 12" rule is just too unwieldy to use in a lot of circumstances, and the 6" rule is the one that is probably used on the bench far more often, as well as setting up tools and equipment.

Ask the school of woodworking if they'll accept a craftsman made veneer knife/marking knife as well. Maybe one of the many who've made a marking knife might donate if you make it in - they're looking for a traditional type of knife. All that I use is one that could be politely called a "gaol special," from a bit of a huge scrap industrial hacksaw blade (3mm thick or so.)

Approx costs below.

Cheers,

eddie

Originally Posted by Rhys Cooper

ok i am going to be applying for a spot at the Asutralian School of Fine Furniture. i am 17, i have emailed them numerous questions, and thye have helped alot. to help with the cost of things i will be applying for a scholarship, but if i dont get i will sell the old nissan pulsar.
what i need to know is how much the tools are roughly gonna cost. here is a list copied from the website:
Tools

• Smoothing Plane: No 4 or No 5 (No 5 recommended
  
  second hand $30-50 or so.
  
  
• Pair of Tenon saws: 1 x cross cut and 1 x rip cut. New "Adria" are excellent but expensive. Older pre 1950's "Disston" brand are superb saws and inexpensive.
  
  Foe the pair, about $100-150. A rip tenon saw is an oddity - you'll have to get one refiled. In my opinion, you don't need one, but, they're the ones calling the shots. New -> Terry Gordon (HNT Gordon planes) is the local Adria distributor.
  
• Dovetail Saw: Again "Adria" or "Lie-Nielsen" are quality tools, but "Pax" or older English or American brands with heavy backs are very good tools.
  
  Approx $50-100 second hand. I use a 1950's Tyzack brand Gents saw for the fine detail, not a dovetail saw. It cost me $2- in a garage sale. Don't buy a 'new' dovetail saw unless it's one of the brands above
  
• Block Plane: Low angle, and ideally with an adjustable mouth. The very best of these are modern "Lie Nielsen" and "Veritas" brands, if you can afford them.
  
  Hans Brunner tools. May need a bit of work to get it going, but the school of furniture should be able to show you how.
  
• Try Square: Engineers type 100mm.
  
  I use a made in India one - I checked it against a reference 'Starrett' brand at the shop, and it was just as square. No need to spend up big, but make sure that it's accurate.
  
  $20 to $80
  
• Steel Rule: 300mm "Toledo" brand.
  
  See notes above - matte finish - $3- or $20 (?)
  
• Marking Knife: Flat bladed Japanese type or "Pfeil" Violin makers 15mm.
  
  See above
  
• Cutting Gauge: "Veritas" wheel marking type recommended.
  
  Carbatec catalogue or MIK catalogue.
  
• Scraper: Flat metal cabinet type. Try to get a stiff thick one.
  
  Two Cherries brand - $10
  
• Scraper Burnisher You can make your own with an old tungsten router cutter shank.
  
  Scrap
  
• Piercing Saw: Jewellers or fret type with blade clamps.
  
  Hans Brunner tools - no idea
  
• Chisels: Bevel, fine edged. 3mm, 6mm, 10mm, 12mm, 19mm, 25mm or imperial equivalents.
  
  Buy a set of Marples to start out with.
  
  As you can, replace them with flea market or garage sale EA Berg chisels in the sizes.
  
• Japanese Water Stones: 800, 1200.
  
  Carbatec - Buy them in pairs so you can flatten one stone by rubbing it against another.
  
  There "Must" be a cheaper source - perhaps Jim Davey, Nowra, who is a distributor as well.
  
  
• Clutch Pencils: 0.35, 0.5, 0.7mm
  
  Good ones from a drafting shop - about $8 each
  
• Safety Equipment: Ear Protection, eye protection and a comfortable dust mask.
  
  $40 earmuffs, $8 safety glasses, $50 dust mask - cartridge respirator type
  
  
• Tape Measure: 5m "Stanley" or "Lufkin"

there are other items but i am mainly worried about the cost of the tools.

could some help me, buy maybe stating a rough overall cost, or maybe even some idivual pricings. even if you just write:
tape measure: $10-$20
something like that.

thanks heaps.
Rhys

thanks heaps for the offer on tha plane. i may take you up on that. i already have a 12" steel rule that has etched markings, so that should be fine, rigth? and i had a 6" steel rule with ecthed markings that i dropped on the floor and i cant seem to find it.lol. but that is ok as well?

how about this:
Tools

• Smoothing Plane: No 4 or No 5 (No 5 recommended SECOND HAND
• Pair of Tenon saws: 1 x cross cut and 1 x rip cut. New "Adria" are excellent but expensive. Older pre 1950's "Disston" brand are superb saws and inexpensive.NEW: should i buy new saws???
• Dovetail Saw: Again "Adria" or "Lie-Nielsen" are quality tools, but "Pax" or older English or American brands with heavy backs are very good tools. NEW: should i buy new saws???
• Block Plane: Low angle, and ideally with an adjustable mouth. The very best of these are modern "Lie Nielsen" and "Veritas" brands, if you can afford them.
• Try Square: Engineers type 100mm. NEW
• Steel Rule: 300mm "Toledo" brand. ALREADY GOT
• Marking Knife: Flat bladed Japanese type or "Pfeil" Violin makers 15mm. SECOND HAND: can reshapren
• Cutting Gauge: "Veritas" wheel marking type recommended. ???
• Scraper: Flat metal cabinet type. Try to get a stiff thick one. Is this for scraping the wood???
• Scraper Burnisher You can make your own with an old tungsten router cutter shank. ???
• Piercing Saw: Jewellers or fret type with blade clamps. ???
• Chisels: Bevel, fine edged. 3mm, 6mm, 10mm, 12mm, 19mm, 25mm or imperial equivalents. SECOND HAND: i can always resharpen them
• Japanese Water Stones: 800, 1200. ???
• Clutch Pencils: 0.35, 0.5, 0.7mm ???
• Safety Equipment: Ear Protection, eye protection and a comfortable dust mask. NEW
• Tape Measure: 5m "Stanley" or "Lufkin" NEW

???: meaning i dont know what it is.
Second Hand meaning buy a second hand one
New meaning i go a buy a brand new one.

thanks heaps everyone

.

Originally Posted by Rhys Cooper

[*]Pair of Tenon saws: 1 x cross cut and 1 x rip cut. New "Adria" are excellent but expensive. Older pre 1950's "Disston" brand are superb saws and inexpensive.NEW: should i buy new saws??? {{Only if you can't get good second hand ones.}} <p>[*]Dovetail Saw: Again "Adria" or "Lie-Nielsen" are quality tools, but "Pax" or older English or American brands with heavy backs are very good tools. <p>NEW: should i buy new saws??? {{Only if you can't get good second hand ones. Adria is the saw of choice - HNT Gordon}}<p>[*]Block Plane: Low angle, and ideally with an adjustable mouth. The very best of these are modern "Lie Nielsen" and "Veritas" brands, if you can afford them. <p>[*]Try Square: Engineers type 100mm. NEW<p>[*]Steel Rule: 300mm "Toledo" brand. ALREADY GOT<p>[*]Marking Knife: Flat bladed Japanese type or "Pfeil" Violin makers 15mm. SECOND HAND: can reshapren {{The flat bladed Japanese one is my gaol special - made from a scrap of hacksaw blade.}}<p>[*]Cutting Gauge: "Veritas" wheel marking type recommended. ??? {{google - Veritas wheel marking gauge.}} <p>[*]Scraper: Flat metal cabinet type. Try to get a stiff thick one. Is this for scraping the wood??? {{Yes - Google: Cabinet Scraper}}<p>[*]Scraper Burnisher You can make your own with an old tungsten router cutter shank. ??? {{Needed to sharpen the scraper, a.k.a. a 'ticketer.' Two Cherries sell a new one, but a router shank or a screwdriver also works.}}<p>[*]Piercing Saw: Jewellers or fret type with blade clamps. ???{{Google: "Piercing saw" - you'll also need a good supply of piercing saw blades.}}<p>[*]Chisels: Bevel, fine edged. 3mm, 6mm, 10mm, 12mm, 19mm, 25mm or imperial equivalents. SECOND HAND: i can always resharpen them<p>[*]Japanese Water Stones: 800, 1200. ??? {{For sharpening chisels and plane blades with. Like an oilstone but runs on water, wears out really quickly.}}<p>[*]Clutch Pencils: 0.35, 0.5, 0.7mm ??? {{a.k.a. propelling pencils - google will help}}<p>[*]Safety Equipment: Ear Protection, eye protection and a comfortable dust mask. NEW {{Definitely.}}<p>[*]Tape Measure: 5m "Stanley" or "Lufkin" NEW[/LIST]???: meaning i dont know what it is.
Second Hand meaning buy a second hand one<p>
New meaning i go a buy a brand new one.<p>

thanks heaps everyone

{you're welcome - not being sarcastic with the 'google' references, just that the search will be quicker than me describing it.}}

Cheers,

Eddie

Stanley No 4 1/2 smooth plane. $40
adria tennon rip saw $225
adria tennon crosscut saw $225
adria dovetail saw $199
veritas low angle black plane $129
stanley try square $25
torpedo 300mm steel rule $18?
Veritas marking knife $66
veritas Graduated Micro-Adjust Marking Gauge $37.50
crown flat bladed scraper $10.50
crown scraper burnisher $32.90
jewlers saw $19.95
<SCRIPT>document.write(getPriceInfo(87,"inc GST within Australia","inc GST within Australia","International Orders",1,true));</SCRIPT>hamlet chisels $18 each ($108)
king watterstones $44 each ($88)
clutch pencils $10 each ($30)
<SCRIPT>document.write(getPriceInfo(87,"inc GST within Australia","inc GST within Australia","International Orders",1,true));</SCRIPT>stanley 5m tape measure $12.90

total: $1266.75

the look on his face peiceles

hope this helps i spent long enough on it


<SCRIPT>document.write(getPriceInfo(87,"inc GST within Australia","inc GST within Australia","International Orders",1,true));</SCRIPT>

Gidday mate,

Sounds like you've got your work cut out for you!!

Thought I would address a couple of the items you marked with ??? or "don't know what it is".

Should you buy new saws? In my opinion, no - particularly not at the moment. The skills you will learn setting and sharpening and old, second hand saw, are, in addition to being useful, also going to give you an idea what your preferred options are and what you are going to use. There is no point in spending $200 on a new Adria tenon saw, only to find that you have chosen a TPI that doesn't suit you. Get some second hand ones - fix em, use 'em and see what you like. Then once you have the skills, the experience and the money (emphasis on that one) you can really go to the trouble of picking the saw that is right for you.

Pax is almost as expensive as the others...

Have a look at Carbatec for the Veritas wheel type marking gauge - it's pretty self-explanatory from the picture.

A scraper is for scraping wood. Have a look at www.lie-neilson.com.au for theirs. Again, I think Carbatec sells them too.

A burnisher is for "sharpening" the cabinet scraper.

Japanese water stones are for sharpening- the different grit sizes offer various amounts of polish on the wood - a higher grit gives more polish. The 800 and 1200 are a standard pair to start with. A lot of people then get the 6000 or the 8000 after that.

Hope that helps a little.

My view is that most things should be bought second hand at first - you'll find they aren't as cheap as you would hope unless you are very patient waiting for the right deal (I am not...). However they offer an extremely valuable learning curve in relation to how that particular item works best, how to tune it or sharpen it and so on.

Best of luck to you,
sCORCH

thanks very much everyone. it is GREATLY appreciated. i have been looking in google now and man that Lie-Neilsen site, is expensive, but i am sure they are good tools.

thanks heaps, and thanks google has helped alot.

Originally Posted by Rhys Cooper

thanks very much everyone. it is GREATLY appreciated. i have been looking in google now and man that Lie-Neilsen site, is expensive, but i am sure they are good tools.

thanks heaps, and thanks google has helped alot.

Yes, the lie-neilsen site is a dangerous, dangerous place to look at for too long if you happen to have a gold credit card...

Edit - oh, but their stuff is top notch!

sCORCH

Hello Rhys

Non of the first years at ASFF have any of these tools.

This list is an ideal and no one expects you to have these tools from day one. Two weeks before the course start they train you on the tools. Teach you how to care for tools and sharpening.

The school and fellow student share tools and we get bye this way. However by the start of the second year most students have a full kit, but even then many still share. For example only one person has a Piercing Saw and we all use it.

The only tools that are a must have are a basic set of chisels the smaller sizes preferred. Most students also get a LV/LN BU Smoother and LV/LN low angle Block plane that is about all. Only 3 students have a Saw western or Japanese. The school has LN saws that you can borrow.

A Marking Knife and Cutting gauge can come in handy in time, so they are worth getting.

Do not bother with the following as the school provides these

• Safety equipment
• Water stones

The rest of the tools are not critical.

Hope to see you next year.

P.S. You will not have time to mess around fixing old tools. You will need the tool that work first time every time. No mucking around. You have work to do. One guy spent his time redoing an old 4 1/2 lost time that way and did not have time to finish his work, you have to think like a pro, what is your time worth? I have done a few Uni courses and this is the most time intensive course ever. Every spare minute you need just to stay up to date, most of us turn up at 8 am as soon as the shop opens and many stay until 5:30 at night when we are thrown out. No time.

ok that is a relief. so basically i should be the necessities:
chisels.
LV/LN BU Smoother
LV/LN low angle Block plane
Marking Knife
Cutting gauge

does the schoool have dovetail saws? if not i may get one, because i am not good at dovetails, so if get a good quality one i can practice

thanks everyone 4 your help.

Originally Posted by Rhys Cooper

dovetail saws?

Yes some Western and Japanese.

However if you can get a good dovetail saw all the better.

NOTE. With the Australian dollar so high it is best to buy direct from the U.S. it is much cheaper then buying locally. You can save a few hundred dollars.

Veritas® Bevel-Up Smoother Plane

Veritas® Low-Angle Block Plane

Veritas® Micro-Adjust Wheel Marking Gauges

Wenzloff & Sons Carcass Saw

The chisels are good to get old, anything Sheffield or American or Titan are good. However it is hard to get the 3 mm, 6 mm sizes.

*EDIT* I am a big fan of HNT Gordon having a complete set of every of his tool, I would seriously advice you to look at his tools again top performers at a great price.

Have you looked at HNT Gordon planes? beautiful wooden planes. Look up his web site.

Carl I hope there aren't too many Torpedo steel rules about. Could be a problem for some one!

Rhys,
have a look through the online version of carbatecs 08 catalogue. Most if not all of the tools you have mentioned are in the catalogue. Be wary of buying direct from overseas if the dollar value of the goods is high,($1000) you may/will get hit with import duty, gst, and clearence fees.
Goodluck and have fun on the course.
Safe routering
SSGT