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2nd July 2008, 02:17 PM #241
So like I asked you before, if you're prepared to put your faith in a modern glue, why do you need a tenon? If the wood around the joint will fail before the glue itself, why does it need reinforcement?
The day will come when we have glues that strong and durable, but it's not here yet."I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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2nd July 2008 02:17 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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2nd July 2008, 02:17 PM #242
I'm done debating you, Silent. Please live up to your forum name.
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2nd July 2008, 02:20 PM #243
There you go again. Can't you have a debate without getting personal? You haven't answered my question.
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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2nd July 2008, 02:21 PM #244Cro-Magnon
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US-Oz, I'm not sure there is actually a greater surface area in a dowelled joint.
The surface area of a dowel is:
Pi * diameter * length
For a maximum sized dowel of 10mm, inserted to the typical half-length of 25mm, each insertion has a surface area of around 785 square millimetres. Thus, five dowels would have a combined surface area of 3,925 square millimetres.
If a tenon was cut to occupy the same outer dimensions, it would have a surface area of (2 * cheek area) + (2 * edge area). The maximum comparable size of the tenon would be approximately 80*10mm * 25mm depth, so the surface area would be 5,600 square millimetres.
In practice, it would be easy for the tenon to be made longer, which wouldn't be easy or practical with store-bought dowels. Thus a larger glue surface again.
I hope I got the maths right
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2nd July 2008, 02:22 PM #245SENIOR MEMBER
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2nd July 2008, 02:22 PM #246Thus, five dowels would have a combined surface area of 3,925 square millimetres."I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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2nd July 2008, 02:25 PM #247.
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I know i get on peoples nerves, but thats harsh on Silent as he always puts across good points in a healthy debate. I havnt seen anything in this thread where he has put foward anything but good common sence facts. So the way i see it, you have started something you can not finish and are opting for the easy way out.
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2nd July 2008, 02:34 PM #248
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2nd July 2008, 02:37 PM #249
OK, so provided you use at least three 'high quality compressed dowels', polyurethane glue, and the Dowelmax jig, you can get a joint that is stronger than a M&T, according to the jig manufacturer. Do I have that right?
So how long have you been using polyurethane glue in your furniture making?"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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2nd July 2008, 02:46 PM #250
Can't help yourself can you? Sorry, but barbs from someone like you are water off a duck's back.
I think Lignum is right, you've run out of steam."I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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2nd July 2008, 02:47 PM #251
Thanks guys, loved this thread, great entertainment and I've learned a lot from it. Hopefully I gave something back as well as took.
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2nd July 2008, 02:48 PM #252.
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Humm . . . I don't know where you're buying your HSS bits from but I just grabbed 3 HSS bits out of our workshop and went up to the Materials testing lab and measured the Rockwell C hardness.
Results:
Sutton standard HSS bit Rc 63.8
No Name Chinese brand HSS Rc 61.5
P&N HSS Rc 62.1
When I get a chance I will test a couple TiN coated bits.
The hardness testing machine is calibrated against a standard material obtained from the National Institute for Standards and Technology (NIST USA)
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2nd July 2008, 02:50 PM #253Cro-Magnon
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BobL, nothing like good, hard, facts ... can't argue with that
Sure you didn't drop them into some heat and cold on the way?? *Grin*
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2nd July 2008, 02:52 PM #254
Bob, it hardly matters. The bushes do not wear out, ask Dowelmax. The side-by-side contact between drill bit and bushing would require very large differences in Rockwells to make a significant difference in a lifetime.
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2nd July 2008, 04:09 PM #255.
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I agree they probably do not wear out much, but I couldn't let a misconception about HSS being Rockwell 50 slide by without a comment. Rockwell 50 is an intermediate level hardness material as far as tools go. A simple check is to try and file a metal or woodworking tool with a standard file which are in the 63 - 67 Rc range. I cannot think of any HSS tool that I have been able to file.
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