Thread: Dovetail Drawers - what on the rear? Consensus?

If you'd like to see the cabinet I mentioned, and you are ever in Annapolis, MD, visit the William Paca House. The cabinet doesn't come from there, but is contemporaneous. Ask if the curator can let you see inside the top drawer - there's a surprise there.

When I was there last month it had just arrived, and the guide couldn't touch it. However, when the curator arrived, she was happy to put on her white gloves and do so. Also, ask to see the bullet hole.

The purpose of the slip/front groove design is to float the drawer bottom to account for expansion and contraction. The drawer bottom is never glued. It is loose. The grain direction of the drawer bottom runs across the drawer, which enables all movement to be towards the front and rear of the drawer. There will be a slight gap at the front (groove is deep enough to accommodate this) and the rear is simply held by a screw in a slot (allowing the drawer bottom to move).

Taken before the screw hole/slot was made ..

Top two drawers have raised slips.




The lower drawers have flush slips ..





Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by Bohdan

What holds the slip against the side? Is it just glue and the pin in the groove?

derekcohen

Thanks for your answer.

I understand how the bottom is fitted but that's not my query. I have always grooved the side wall and was not happy with the the appearance of thick timber to allow for the groove. I like your solution and I just want clarification as to how you attach the slip to the side wall.

BTW nice looking drawers.

I just want clarification as to how you attach the slip to the side wall.

I thought I had answered this, but obviously not

Just glue.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Hi Bohdan

I build slips by playing a groove into the end of a board, then slicing off the end (= grooved batten).

I've never made on of these so am wondering, is that the end of a board or the side/edge of a board? It seems it would be the side

edit: hmm it is probably the end of one side edge of a board. my pedantic brain reads things too literally sometimes )

Yes, Peter, if you used the end grain, the slip would crumble into tiny bits! Stay with long grain.

Regards from Perth

Derek

thanks derek, that's what I was thinking

Originally Posted by woodPixel

I'm about to make a few drawers with half blind dovetails on the front.

I've found quite a few pix on what joint is generally used on the back, but it seems there is little text as to why certain styles are chosen.

Anyone know or can point me to what the preferential treatment is?

Sides and Front is 18mm. Back is yet undecided.

WP, sorry I only have a drawing (taken from a learn to use Sketchup exercise) and not a picture
In "quality" work the drawer back is thinner than the sides, in this case 1/2" to go with 3/4" sides. (In your case maybe 12 mm to go with 18 mm sides). IMO 18 mm sides would normally teamed with a 25 mm front.

Also, in this drawing, the back is the same height as the sides. Properly, the height of the back should be about 8 to 10mm less than the height of the sides.

In particular, note that the bottom DT on the back is not a true dovetail -- only the top is angled, the bottom is at 90 degrees, so that it is parallel and flush with the top surface of the drawer bottom.

Another vote for D/tails front & rear. Because rear sets are out of sight most of the time, through & fairly even is my choice - no point in putting flimsy, pointy pins back there - make 'em solid & lasting!

And I'm a groover - p'raps because I spent so much time in Nth America? The reason I don't like slips is because I like a clean, clear drawer bottom. I don't like fat drawer sides, either, but I think 3/8" is over underdoing it. For all but the smallest drawers, I think you can strike a balance with a slim enough side that will still allow a groove. However, it's all in the eye of the beholder, so if slips are your thing, why not? These COD sides are 16mm, which looks proportional to my eyes for a utilitarian piece, gives plenty of room for grooves, and a decent bearing surface on the runners ('kitchen drawers?' Hmmmm): Top drawer.jpg

Question for Derek - it's not clear from your drawing or pics, but I assume your slips also form part of the bottom bearing surface? Nine mm sides bearing on the runners sounds like a recipe for some serious wear with a heavy drawer, unless they get some help!

Cheers,

These COD sides are 16mm, which looks proportional to my eyes

Philistine!

Question for Derek - it's not clear from your drawing or pics, but I assume your slips also form part of the bottom bearing surface? Nine mm sides bearing on the runners sounds like a recipe for some serious wear with a heavy drawer, unless they get some help!

Hi Ian

I agree, 8 or 9mm would be a little in the mingy side. The picture below is part of the process of making slips. I added a 3mm thick veneer of Jarrah, which will be the added bearing surface in the drawers in question (the reason for the siding bevel is that these drawers have compound angles, and the slips were also angled on the sides) ...



Here is a photo of the slips alongside the drawer side ...



Regards from Perth

Derek

Such a simple question, so many things.

So, its definitely through dovetails on the rear, using a thinner rear.

The slips are clever when you think about them, for they offer more surface to rub therefore reduces wear. The "replaceable" 3mm veneers work too.

Just for the sake of an argument, its my intention to make these fairly quickly, so I'm thinking about how to make the dovetails on the front and the back the same. I'm wondering whether to use the Incra, Leigh or do by hand, but get the blinds on the front and through on the rear in the one setup.

This is for a short run product, but I want it to be as nice as possible. The idea of traditional joinery fits very well into its modernity.

Many many many thanks to everyone. I've learned a lot (and Veritas, I fear, is getting richer by the week as I learn)

Originally Posted by woodPixel

Such a simple question, so many things.....

Well, WP, it wouldn't be such fun if it were all just mechanical, & everyone agreed on everything, would it?

Originally Posted by woodPixel

..... I'm wondering whether to use the Incra, Leigh or do by hand, but get the blinds on the front and through on the rear in the one setup.....

If it's a production run, then using a fixed setup & burning electrons makes sense, time is money, after all. I suppose you could use the same setup for both front & back pins, but remember the back is only as deep as the top of the groove for the drawer bottom, so you need to place your tails accordingly. For that reason, it's usual to space front & back tails differently. The back tails don't have to work as hard as the fronts, as Derek has already mentioned, so it's common practice to reduce them compared with the front lot.

For a one-off with just a single drawer or three, hand-cut would be quicker & more satisfying, I reckon I'd be done before you got the jig set & cutting perfectly. And if it's a graded set of drawers, it would be far quicker by hand for a single set, because each drawer needs different spacings.

And Derek, , yep, I definitely have Philistine tendencies - my agricultural origins plus producing 4 rambunctious children have conditioned me to structural soundness over finesse....

Cheers,

In the meantime, at the other end of the spectrum to Derek's "fine furniture", comes Chinese rustic.....

A couple of years ago I restored a small Chinese table and added a treatise on Chinese drawermaking ..... as one does ? Unfortunately the thread didn't survive THE GREAT FORUM PICTURE HEIST and so those pictures have disappeared.
I ducked downstairs before leaving this morning and took the following...

IMG_5918.jpg IMG_5922.jpg IMG_5921.jpg

This simple back-of-drawer treatment is common to a lot of Chinese furniture and I've seen Chinese furniture makers cut this joint, by eye, in seconds. The method requires a coping saw only, is strong (if not attractive) and provides a drawer depth stop as well!

fletty