Thread: Fixing marble tops

Don't know how they used to do it, but a few good lines of glass/mirror silicon will do the job. I'd go one line around the edge and a generous zigzag through the middle.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

Don't know how they used to do it, but a few good lines of glass/mirror silicon will do the job. I'd go one line around the edge and a generous zigzag through the middle.

Hi Elan',
Silicon or even epoxy were my first thoughts but I'm worried that 'sometime, someone, somewhere' will try to lift the loaded cabinet by lifting from the edge of the marble and then that joint will take the weight of a fully loaded cabinet? I was thinking that (probably) 4 strategically placed screws PLUS silicon/epoxy might be the go?
Ive googled drilling marble and I presume it will be like drilling porcelain tiles (?) and hence I will need a diamond bit (?) BUT diamond core bits will leave a plug in the middle of the hole and I don't know if that would be simple to snap out or not?

fletty

About ten years ago when clearing out my Uncle's house after he'd passed away, one of the items of furniture that we found was a Bathroom Vanity dating (according to family members' memories) to some time just before WW1. That Vanity Unit is built from Aussie Red Cedar and has a Marble Top. The Marble top is not attached to the vanity unit - it simply sits on top of the wooden cabinet, secured by gravity. The vanity cabinet itself does not have wood top under the marble. The marble top simply rests on the top edge of the vanity cabinet frame. Apparently the family practice when the marble top needed a good clean (rather than just a wipe with a damp rag) was to lift the top off and take it outside for a good scrub, which probably explains why the timber cabinet structure itself was still in very good condition. That Vanity Unit now lives with relatives interstate, so unfortunately I can't easily post a picture of it.

One of the Antique Dealers in Esk (SEQ) had a similar Marble Topped Bathroom Vanity in their shop a month or so ago, and the marble top on that unit was not fastened to the cabinet. That antique was apparently early 1900s French origin. The antique dealer told me that you don't see marble tops being glued to the cabinet structure until after WW2 when suitable adhesives started to slowly become available. He did say that some similar vanity units, mainly of German origin dating to the early 1900s, sometimes have the marble top secured to the cabinet using stainless steel or chrome dome headed bolts, with the nuts inside the cabinet - but he said that he had never been able to ascertain whether the bolts were original construction, or a later addition. Until then, it seems that they relied on Gravity to do the job.

I'll be building a new vanity unit myself next month, and plan to use a suitable silicon sealant or builders glue to bond the pseudo Marble top (a one piece basin and bench top) to the cabinet structure.

RoyG

Thanks Roy,
That explains a lot of things!
I have been looking at marble topped furniture in antique shops and had found 2 dressers that did NOT have any cabinet work above the marble and I thought they were broken because the marble tops were loose !

I guess I should have realised that 2 out of 2 was more than a trend?

It is quite possible therefore that only the ones that also have cabinet work above the marble top have fixed tops and that could be because the cabinet work is used to hide mechanical fasteners?

I'm going to look for a bit of scrap marble and try drilling and fixing threaded rod and threaded inserts and see how well that works because the design already allows me hide at least 2 through holes and then (say) 4 more hidden fasteners should do the job?

fletty

Fletty, when I was working, (White board cabinets) any stone tops that were required were supplied and fitted by a bloke who specialised in all kinds of stone work. He would mix up Megapoxy to glue joints in the stuff as well as using it to glue down the top. You have to have acetone on hand to help clean up.
Once the glue went of it was a very PERMANENT fix. I would steer away from any metal fixing of the top. Marble is brittle (like any stone top) and will not tolerate any tension from fixings. To fix the top down in your case, I would install the cabinet in position and screw fix to a wall (if applicable) then just use Megapoxy the top and walk away. If you need to clamp it down use something heavy and just weigh it down, don't use clamps at all! In 24 hours it will be there for good

I'm thinking that some strategically placed dobs of silicone would be the way to go. You could mark the underside of the marble as to their location. That way if for any reason the top required removal down the track, a sharp flexible scraper or blade could be used to cut through the silicone. Epoxy would obviously stronger, but probably impossible to cut through if necessary. Just my thoughts...

Thanks Elan', Roy and Rod ....and Biscuitman,
Given your posts, and a bit more googling on marble, I'm going to try it with NO fasteners but use MEGAPOXY.
Ive just googled MEGAPOXY and it seems very impressive. So impressive in fact that, just before I start the job, I'm going to post a note on the forum so that, if I suddenly go quiet for a day or 2, you'll know that I've glued myself to the dresser and need separation and rescuing!
fletty

Another way if top needed to be removed is to adhere 2 or 3 battens across the underside make a swinging lock screwed to those battens for easy removal of the top in the future.

Originally Posted by fletty

Thanks Elan', Roy and Rod ....and Biscuitman,
Given your posts, and a bit more googling on marble, I'm going to try it with NO fasteners but use MEGAPOXY.

please don't

I've just spoken to a cousin who is seriously into antique furniture.
They have "never seen" an antique where the marble / stone top is attached to the base. Gravity is all that is needed.

you don't really need to worry about the top being bumped far enough to fall off the cabinet -- I calculate that the "bump" needed to dislodge a gravity attached top weighing ~40kg far enough that the top fell to the floor, would equate to a horizontal displacement in the order of 600 mm (assuming the cabinet is located near a wall). A "bump" that strong is getting into greater than 9 on the Richter scale.

Originally Posted by ian

please don't

I've just spoken to a cousin who is seriously into antique furniture.
They have "never seen" an antique where the marble / stone top is attached to the base. Gravity is all that is needed.

you don't really need to worry about the top being bumped far enough to fall off the cabinet -- I calculate that the "bump" needed to dislodge a gravity attached top weighing ~40kg far enough that the top fell to the floor, would equate to a horizontal displacement in the order of 600 mm (assuming the cabinet is located near a wall). A "bump" that strong is getting into greater than 9 on the Richter scale.

Having already bumped into the marble top several times and come off second best, I can confirm that it certainly doesn't move easily BUT how will I go with the cabinet work (backboard, shelves and 2 end cupboards) that are to be on top of the marble?
I guess I could continue the backboard down to below the marble top and tie it all together that way?

fletty

Hi fletty

if the top of the lower carcass were all wood you could
1. use dowels to locate the upper carcass.
2. screw the upper carcass to the top of the lower carcass.
3. create a recess in the top of the lower carcass to locate and lock the upper carcass in place.
4. use battens to tie the two carcasses together.

with a marble top, your options for the upper carcass are
1. gravity
2. gravity assisted by locating battens pinned into the marble to ensure that the upper carcass says in the "correct" relative position.
3. battens tying the backs of the top and bottom carcasses together.

regardless of the method you adopt, I suggest that the lowest part of the upper cabinet be considered sacrificial -- to be repaired or replaced following any spillage on the marble that stains or damages the upper carcass.

I was under a degree of domestic pressure, "happy wife, happy life" etc so I suggested "let's go to Mittagong' which raised firstly a smile and then a quizzical stare!
I guess me volunteering to go to a 'girly' antique store when there is a blokey antique store across the road nearly gave me away ...but I think I got away with it?
There is a marble topped table inside the door, the top is definitely fixed but I couldn't see how because it is done between the top battens and the marble. Further back in the shop, past the 'girly stuff', there was another marble topped table although much smaller. It was on a cast iron frame and the marble top, which wouldn't be heavy enough to stay put, was fixed to the stand with what appears to be spikes on the stand located in roughly cut pockets in the marble and then fixed with plaster of Paris?
I'm going to complete the design presuming that the marble will 'float' and that the top and bottom cabinets will be linked together by braces on the back. If the slab is too 'mobile', then i'll glue/screw a single batten onto the bottom face of the marble to screw into a suitable part of the lower carcase.
I remember reading many years ago that morgue slabs are made from marble because it has the unique ability to be (feel?) 3 degrees below the room ambient. If that IS the case, then I will also have expansion issues if I put too much fixing between the carcase and marble slab and so 2 fixing points should be OK and leave room for relative movement perpendicular to the brace.
I have thus successfully left a difficult question to later ....and I'm in the good books!

fletty

Hi fletty,
I have two cabinets that I made twenty or so years ago on is a hutch dresser and the other is a matching three draw unit both have Imperial red granite on the tops not fixed and there has never been any movement at all ever as said gravity is you're friend they will not move until you need them to having just moved and had to carry them reminded me of the weight that gravity uses so well the hutch top is 1500x500x20 and the draw unit is 1000x500x20.
Regards Rod.

Marble is easy to drill as it is reasonably soft, don't use the hammer function you should be able to run a hole using it normally which reduces the risk of fracturing the stone on thin material.

Having said that you don't fix the top to the base, that only leads to cracking of the stone through movement. You simply let gravity do its stuff.

If you need to glue fixings, use epoxy, it never lets go, if you want to fix to a base silicone works well