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26th June 2006, 05:24 AM #1
FWW article on cutting half-blind dovetails - the hardcore Dark-Side way
I found the article in the current FWW (#185) on cutting half-blind dovetails rather disappointing. It tends to perpetuate the myth that cutting dovetails without using a router-based dovetailing jig requires exceptional skills and long practice. The artice recommends doing the job with only the most basic tools - a pencil, bevel-gauge, marking gauge, dozuki saw, and and chisel. It gives no indication that there are simple aids and jigs that make the job much easier, or that making the tail cuts using a mitre gauge with a high fence on the table saw, will ensure that at least half the cuts will be accurately made. Similarly, it doesn't mention any other ways of removing the bulk of the waste between the tails and between the pins, other than chopping it all away with a chisel.
I will elaborate in later posts about the simple aids, jigs, and techniques that can help to make cutting dovetails without a router-based dovetailing jig a less daunting prospect. But for now I am going back to bed
Rocker
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26th June 2006, 09:41 AM #2
Hi Rocker,
I look forward to reading your suggestions for making darkside dovetails easier. If you needed any encouragement, please feel encouraged.Regards,
Ian.
A larger version of my avatar picture can be found here. It is a scan of the front cover of the May 1960 issue of Woodworker magazine.
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26th June 2006, 10:18 AM #3
Me too. Consider yourself heartily encouraged. It would be great to have someone reconcile all of the information in one place. I would love to have the time to hand-cut everything, but shed time is so precious that efficiency is more important than 100% darkside. I don't like the idea of DT jigs though, and the next project will have dt's somewhere, I promise!
The only way to get rid of a [Domino] temptation is to yield to it. Oscar Wilde
.....so go4it people!
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26th June 2006, 12:26 PM #4
'Tis why I like the incra fence that I am just starting to use. It isn't a jig persay - it is a highly accurate fence, and as such, makes dovetailing very easy (1/2 and full), as well as box joints, dados etc.
"Clear, Ease Springs"
www.Stu's Shed.com
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26th June 2006, 01:33 PM #5
I just use the magnetic LV Dovetail guides with a Jap saw but if I had some more cash I would probably get a leigh jig. While I would like to have the time to practice marking out DT with a thumbnail dipped in tar and cutting them with an old diston, I don't really have time. To each their oen I guess.
If I do not clearly express what I mean, it is either for the reason that having no conversational powers, I cannot express what I mean, or that having no meaning, I do not mean what I fail to express. Which, to the best of my belief, is not the case.
Mr. Grewgious, The Mystery of Edwin Drood - Charles Dickens
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26th June 2006, 02:57 PM #6
As I mentioned in my first post in this thread, it is quick and easy to make the saw cuts for the tails on the table saw, using a high fence attached to a mitre gauge (see Photo). Doing this ensures that the cuts for the tails are precisely perpendicular to the workpiece's face and that they are at a constant angle (7° to its edge. Moreover, it is not necessary to be unduly finicky about ensuring that the saw cuts coincide precisely with the layout lines when cutting the tails. The fit of the joint will depend on how accurately the saw cuts for the pins are made.
The photo also shows the simple jigs and accessories that make the process of marking out and cutting dovetails by hand relatively painless, compared at least to relying on the skill and lengthy experience required to achieve the same results without such aids. Shown in the photo are the LV Marking gauge, dovetail marker, marking knife, dovetail guide and dovetail saw, together with a hammer chisel and clamping jig for holding the workpiece whilst chopping away waste.
When cutting the tails on the table saw I make two contiguous cuts on one side of the tail to give access for a 1/4" bandsaw blade to cut away the bulk of the waste. If you are cutting a large number of tails, it would probably be worthwhile to set up a dado set to cut away the bulk of the waste between the tails, instead of doing it on the bandsaw. Cutting away the bulk of the waste with the bandsaw or dado set eliminates the first stage of the waste removal that the FWW article advises should be done with a chisel.
To chop away the remainder of the waste, I use the clamping jig shown in the photo. The workpiece is clamped so that the gauged line coincides with the vertical edge of the clamping bar. The chisel is placed into the gauged line and its back is held firmly against the vertical face of the clamping bar, and it is then hammered down to remove the small thickness of remaining waste. This can easily and accurately be achieved with three or four fairly light hammer taps. The use of the clamping jig makes it a simple matter to chop away the waste accurately to the marked line. If you try to do this without using a clamping jig, as recommended by the FWW article, you need to exercise a considerable amount of skill to ensure that you make a vertical cut.
Making the saw cuts freehand for the pins of half-blind dovetails is likewise a highly skilled operation unless you use a dovetail guide like the Veritas one, which incorporates rare-earth magnets to ensure that the dovetail saw is held at the correct angle. Removing the waste between the pin cuts by the traditional method, with hammer and chisel only, is also very difficult to do accurately, particularly if the wood has curly or interlocking grain. For this reason, I like to remove the bulk of the waste between the pins either with the router on the Rocker morticing jig, or with a forstner bit in a drill press. Either of these methods will ensure that the waste is removed to a consistent depth, and it is then relatively easy to clean up the rest of the waste using a chisel with the workpiece held in the clamping jig, as for the tails.
Using these techniques, I have found it relatively easy to cut accurate dovetails without a router-based dovetail jig. But doing so without the jigs and accessories described above, as advocated by the FWW article, would be intimidating indeed.
Rocker
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26th June 2006, 03:24 PM #7If you try to do this without using a clamping jig, as recommended by the FWW article, you need to exercise a considerable amount of skill to ensure that you make a vertical cut.
I don't use any jigs but for through dovetails I often use the table saw to cut the pins and the bandsaw to cut the tails, with a chisel to remove the waste. For half blinds in the past I have used a chisel and a saw only but I might give the forstner bit a go next time."I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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26th June 2006, 03:59 PM #8Originally Posted by silentC
Rocker
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26th June 2006, 04:02 PM #9
Nice one Rocker.
I like the idea of using the clamping jig for guiding the chisel during the process of removing the last of the waste. I think I'll give that one a try.Regards,
Ian.
A larger version of my avatar picture can be found here. It is a scan of the front cover of the May 1960 issue of Woodworker magazine.
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26th June 2006, 04:05 PM #10
In the chapter of his book "The Complete Illustrated Guide to Joinery" concerning handcutting dovetails, Gary Rogowski says "Slightly undercutting the waste toward the centre helps the joint seat properly. High spots prevent the joint from going together, and since this is end grain, there's no advantage in terms of gluing surface." As long as the edges of the shoulder are flat and in plane, the face of the adjacent member will sit squarely and firmly.
In any case, I've found that it improves the results I get from dovetails and also improves the shoulders of M&T joints."I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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26th June 2006, 04:17 PM #11
Slavo,
Unless you intend to cut a really large number of dovetails, I think it is hard to justify buying a Leigh jig. I mentioned in another thread that I sold mine about six months ago, because I didn't envisage cutting many more dovetails. The setup time and the learning curve for the Leigh jig are not insignificant, and it can be subject to some inaccuracy, unless you carefully ensure that the template guide that you are using with it is precisely concentric with the axis of your router bit, that all the fingers of the jig are clamped very securely in position, and that all the stops are correctly adjusted.
If you are making a chest of drawers in which the drawers have a graduated depth, you will need to change the jig setup for each sucessive drawer, so the time advantage of the jig over hand cutting is not great for a short run.
Rocker
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26th June 2006, 04:24 PM #12Originally Posted by silentC
Now I agree with you. I had not appreciated that you were talking about undercutting towards the centre, but keeping the edges of the shoulder flat and in plane.
Rocker
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26th June 2006, 04:34 PM #13
One of the many things which is easier to do than say
"I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."
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26th June 2006, 04:54 PM #14
Rocker,
stupid question from me. Do you tilt the blade 7 deg or do you tilt the wood at 7 deg ???
Regards
Les
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26th June 2006, 05:00 PM #15Originally Posted by Rocker
The template guides on my router are held in place with two screws and before the screws are tightened up the template guide is free to move a small amount.
I'm not all that familiar with the mechanisms used to attach template guides to other routers, but if your's attach via a couple of screws then I can't see why this wouldn't work. You don't need to buy one from Festool, you could turn one yourself if you have access to a metal lathe or you could probably even turn one out of wood that would work OK if you only have access to a wood lathe. If like me you don't have access to either type of lathe then you might have to buy one from Festool.Regards,
Ian.
A larger version of my avatar picture can be found here. It is a scan of the front cover of the May 1960 issue of Woodworker magazine.
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