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  1. #16
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    To me, hand made is more of a feel. The person makes the item not just because they will get some cash but because they take pride in doing the job properly and want the new owner to enjoy the item for many many years.

    Sounds corny but that is what the word "handmade" means to me.
    Try to look unimportant, they may be low on ammo.

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  3. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rookie View Post
    I think an important differentiator would be that it is finished by hand...nicely. That is, sanding until we're happy with it, oiling or polishing or whatever until we're happy with it, sanded back and done again if we're not. The alternative is whatever sanding the production line gives it then shove it all through a spray booth.
    Rookie, I had to come back to your comment when I saw this piece on the back of the December 2008 Woodwork magazine.

    the timbers are madrone, maple, afzelia burl and leather

    the piece is by Chris Martin and the shape was inspired by the Czech Cubism movement. The shell consists of 18 separate pieces of wood.

    The exterior finish is paint applied by a company that specialises in spraying cars and choppers

    hand finished ? – no

    hand made ? – most definitely


    ian

  4. #18
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    While "hand made" may mean a number of things as people have said so far, my interpretation of "hand crafted" would be something that was "hand made" but included the design of the item as well as as its creation.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robomanic View Post
    Not sure if its been long enough for that to be funny yet....
    Mate when it comes to funny there are no rules no taboo's if a joke offends the the offended has a sensitivity issue. It would not be funny if it was not in a little bit of bad taste.


    Ross
    Ross
    "All government in essence," says Emerson, "is tyranny." It matters not whether it is government by divine right or majority rule. In every instance its aim is the absolute subordination of the individual.

  6. #20
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    I'd expect (and return, miffed, if I found otherwise) an item labelled thus to be crafted without resort to power tools. So I wouldn't have a problem with mechanised raw stock preparation, but would expect joinery and final surface preparation to use one-craftsman-powered tools only.

    For this definition, I wouldn't accept human powered scroll saws or pillar drills either (though I do use a pillar drill) and hand drills (eggbeaters) are pushing it.
    It's the 'crafted' bit that does it - whilst superb for production and repeatability, these things dumb down, or take the 'craft' out of the process.
    If you wore a suit (happily, I don't need to) you'd be a little disappointed in the wallet to find it had been 'hand stitched' by machine.

    Silmilarly, I wouldn't accept any spray finish as 'hand finished'

    Perhaps my Luddism is a little extreme - and I'm not suggesting power tools don't require skill to operate, nor that spray finishing is anything but a highly skilled pursuit - just that they aren't really 'hand' work.

    Cheers
    Steve

  7. #21
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    A lot of products, the parts are made by machine, But they are
    fitted and finished by hand. By skilled workers.

    Guitars, violins, better grades of furniture, even high end skate boards
    are hand crafted.

    How about your home, did a robot build it?

  8. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Papa View Post
    A lot of products, the parts are made by machine, But they are
    fitted and finished by hand. By skilled workers.
    Stretching the definition this far suggests that if I put together a flat pack wardrobe I can label it 'hand crafted'
    Guitars, violins, better grades of furniture, even high end skate boards
    are hand crafted.
    Very true. I make mandolins, which I would describe as 'hand built' but not entirely 'hand crafted' as I do use a drum sander to bring the plates to thickness and a bobbin sander to shape the compound curve for my double cutaway neck block.

    I have the impression that the term is usually touted to appeal to consumers' romantic notions of a bygone age of craftmanship. It is not an indication of quality, but rather of uniqueness, as each piece will have its own quirks and imperfections.

    The repeatability of a machine based production process affords the potential for higher quality product than can be achieved economically by hand.

    Hand fitting allows for individual adjustment, to correct poor machining, to manage the unique properties manifest in each piece of wood, and to try to tailor the final product to an individual patron's requirement.

    Many fellows use an automated carving machine of one form or another to make Gibson-style carved mandolins. Those who use the machine merely to hog out the majority of the waste, leaving a blank which is then further refined by hand can of course quite rightly describe the instrument as hand crafted. But if the machine is used to produce a plate which is just scraped before assembly, that is not hand crafted in my eye - whether the instrument be better or worse.

    Cheers
    Steve

  9. #23
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    Craftmanship is not measured by tools but by results, an item made by a craftsman is very different to a mass produced item.

    Since nothing these days can be made without a machine in at least one phase, be it milling, cutting or finishing, I would suggest the best definition would crafted or made by one person from design to finish, with that person operating the tools, remember a lot of power tools are hand tools so suggesting that power tools are not acceptable is a very Amish point of view.

    Hand made is anything made by a person, not robots (cars) or CNC machines (flatpack).
    The butt jointed bookcases made by whoever at home is hand made, the bookcase with sliding dovetails, morticed and tenoned face with good grain matching is crafted and then if made by one person from stock selection to completion is hand crafted.

    To return something that says handcrafted because they used a power tool is like returning it because they used tools at all, hands being the only tool allowed..........
    Returning because the work is not up to craftmanship standards is more logical.
    .

  10. #24
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    That the item may exhibit great craftmanship is not as issue. It is that it had been labelled to dupe the customer into belief it was a work of handicraft, when in fact the manual skill required was of a lesser order, replaced by (no less, but differently) skilled machine setup.

    And to be a pedant:
    Merriam-Webster: Handicraft: manual skill; an occupation requiring skill with the hands
    Longman: Handcrafted: skilfully made by hand, not by machine [= handmade]:
    Wiktionary: Handcrafted: made by hand or using the hands, as opposed to by mass production or using machinery
    YourDictionary.com: Handicraft: expertness with the hands; manual skill; an occupation or art calling for skillful use of the hands; work done or articles made by manual skills
    Princeton Wordnet: handcraft: a work produced by hand labor
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/handcraft
    I haven't found a single definition suggesting production by anything except skilled hand tool usage. Those which allow for hand machinery still emphasise manual skill. I'd argue that machine setup and jig and fixture conception is more of a cerebral than manual skill.

    To dig my hole even deeper, it might be suggested that use of any jig (including chuting board) reduces the level of handicraft, since the greater skill is required of the toolmaker, to the benefit of the product maker (be they the same person or not)

    I'm a bit(?) of a PITA I know, but when a phrase is misappropriated to deceive in this fashion, it really irks. It's worse than saying the British troops at Rorke's Drift were decimated (which is merely a ridiculous understatement of the Zulu victory, since the British force was reduced by 75% - not 10%)

    Cheers
    Steve
    (and now, I really will take my head out of my )

  11. #25
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    One thing that comes to mind,, It takes more skill to operate a hand
    held power plane than a regular hand plane. Or you can make a bigger
    mess quicker with a power plane??

    Maybe all you get to work with is a Swiss army knife?

  12. #26
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    Despite being the extreme-view-merchant, Steve has (for me) actually put his finger on it: It is the degree of control exercised by the maker, directly, that distinguishes the (let's say) hand-made item from one that isn't. In other words, it is the degree of risk that the maker takes in performing each operation. The use of a jig, for example, might make the operation faster and less prone to error, but it also removes it one step further from the pure activity. We mustn't be confused by our natural inclination to say it's not only OK, it's actually sensible to take precautions against error such as using a template, perhaps making a jig to accurately cut some difficult angled mortise etc. Such steps are justified in the goal of a successful end result, but is the end result a nice well-constructed chair, or a chair that I could say; "well, it's pretty rough in spots, but at least I was true to the philosophy of making it completely by hand"

    In the ideal world, the ultimate skill of the craftsman/woman enables a product of a quality exceeding that of the product from any process that, to promote efficiency of some aspect, removes the person's physical input, or exercise of their judgement in favour of a more "dumbed-down" approach. (This is a tedious opinion, isn't it! sorry)

    For me (and I suspect, most of us,) it's a quiet battle that ebbs and flows subconsciously whenever we ponder what the "best way" to do something.

    Enough from me...

    Bill

    PS. I don't consider the use of powered tools to alter the definition unless their design confers an added element of control to the process; a drill drills, but Steve's pillar drill happens to drill exactly perpendicular to the baseplate, which is something more.
    Chipslinger

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbarhamlin View Post
    Perhaps my Luddism is a little extreme - and I'm not suggesting power tools don't require skill to operate, nor that spray finishing is anything but a highly skilled pursuit - just that they aren't really 'hand' work.

    Cheers
    Steve
    What do you mean perhaps a little extreme!
    Lucky for 99.9% of craftsmen your not setting the definition for hand crafted least ways not before we are all forced to a pre industrial revolution technology by nuclear winter or global warming!

    Mate if you brought back a piece of my "Hand crafted" furniture because you discovered I used a router to cut a mortice I can tell you that you would not get you money back !

    Any way it is just a marketing term these days rightly or wrongly. 99% of the time the customer wouldnt know care how it was made so being pedantic about a term that no longer has much meaning is a waste of your time and effort and will only set you up for disappointment!

    Ross
    Ross
    "All government in essence," says Emerson, "is tyranny." It matters not whether it is government by divine right or majority rule. In every instance its aim is the absolute subordination of the individual.

  14. #28
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    Hi chaps
    I did write a full response - but the spellchecker intervened (grrr).
    (Subsequently, several pints of Denmark's best(?) have intervened)
    So here's the short(er) version:

    Papa - unjigged powered hand tools certainly take bigger 'bits' () than I have - unskilled (my) use causes more damage, quicker than the equivalent hand tool - and skilled use results in a lesser finish than I can acheive by hand - and I get to listen to my favourite CDs.

    Bill - you have the measure of my mindset. Further, since I am but a hamateur, I can afford to make production choices that would not be tenable for a professional.

    Ross - I swing freely between understatement and hyperbole
    I do mourn the bygone granularity of the language, but recognise that I am the odd one out here (I made a clever quip about M&Ms and Moxon here - but past victims of my humour might recommend that I don't inflict it on others)
    I only have a real problem with the phrase 'handcrafted' if it is used to justify a price premium like 'organic' (and then, I'd probably just kick myself for being duped.) Otherwise I'd just find my soap box to howl into the wind about degradation of the language (oops, already doing that.)

    Short version? Well, yes, it was. But I'm peckish now.
    G'nite
    Steve

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Different View Post
    Any way it is just a marketing term these days rightly or wrongly. 99% of the time the customer wouldnt know care how it was made so being pedantic about a term that no longer has much meaning is a waste of your time and effort and will only set you up for disappointment!

    Ross
    I would agree if someone was just walking into the showroom to buy a piece off the floor. I think it does apply to pieces that have been designed for a particular customer though.

    Steve - I would not be asking a premium just for a sticker/brand, but I would be trying to remind the customer that the piece was customized to their needs (whims) and this piece received personal attention with them in mind. That is what the brand/logo etc should stand for. I think that is worth a small premium (bearing in mind that not many customers will pay an arbitrary amount for extra care) and a piece is only ever worth what someone is willing to pay for it.
    Cheers,
    Shannon.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunbarhamlin;822443

    Ross - I swing freely between understatement and hyperbole :)
    I do mourn the bygone granularity of the language, but recognise that [I
    I[/I] am the odd one out here (I made a clever quip about M&Ms and Moxon here - but past victims of my humour might recommend that I don't inflict it on others)
    I only have a real problem with the phrase 'handcrafted' if it is used to justify a price premium like 'organic' (and then, I'd probably just kick myself for being duped.) Otherwise I'd just find my soap box to howl into the wind about degradation of the language (oops, already doing that.)

    Steve
    "Organic" is one of my pet hates and the greatest example of marketing fraud in history. You cannot grow a tomato and spray around it with "Roundup" (Glyphosate) and call it Organic produce but to dump crude oil is fine because it is an Organic compound. Perhaps not common practice but it demonstrates the irony. The marketing twats have (educated) the public to believe Organic = Good Non Organic = Bad and it is just such a load of old bollocks.


    Back on topic "Handcrafted is simply whatever the user of the term decides it is right or wrong!

    Ross
    Ross
    "All government in essence," says Emerson, "is tyranny." It matters not whether it is government by divine right or majority rule. In every instance its aim is the absolute subordination of the individual.

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