Thread: Hand Cut Dovetails

Hi Wongdai

I'm sort of guessing how you've been cutting the tails, but I'll have a go at explaing how I do them.

Saw the sides of the tails down to the marks, maybe a tad shy of the line...don't want a sloppy fit. chisel vertically at the start of the tail maybe a millimetre deep depending on hardness of the wood. Chisel horizontally from end of tail to that vertical cut. Continue doing that to almost the bottom of the tail, then I usually pare the last bit to get a cleaner finish. Then clean up the sides to fit the pins. I never touch the pins again, just pare the tails to fit.
I think the trick is really sharp chisels and take a bit at a time

I saw a video recently on this forum which showed the process in a really soft wood. Looked easy but you could never use that method with australian hardwoods.

I think the fretsaw on the pins is just to get rid of the bulk of the waste. You will still have to chisel to clean up. I don't use one, just a chisel. I use a japanese saw and reckon they are fantastic.

Just my views so please don't shoot me down

Garry

Originally Posted by Wongdai

I'm having trouble with dovetails. I guess you've all heard that before yes?

Basically, when I do half-blind dovetails, the pins are fine, but when I try and do the tails, the bits that are meant to be left in to form the tail tends to come out in the chiselling process.

Not sure what I am doing wrong here.

Also, for doing the tails, would using a fret saw to cut the bottom cut be better and more reliable than using a chisel? I would just try it but I don't have a fret saw.

One more thing:

Can someone recommend a decent and fine dovetail saw to purchase. I am currently using one of those Japanese saws which is fine, but would like to try the more traditional backsaw approach..

Oh, and are all fret saws pretty much the same? i.e. just buy any?

Thanks for all your help

Wongdai

Hi Wongdai,

I have always found it easier to cut the tails first, and yes the debate will rage long after we are gone. if you wish look a the attached video never mind the speed this guy is quick but more study the process. Lots or luck or really that should read lots of practice. Fine Boxes,Gold Coast School of Fine Woodwork


Cheers


Steve

Fascinating video. Ok, so I was getting the tails and pins mixed up in my terminology.

I do it in the same order as him, but I have to try (press) a lot harder to get the waste out than what he does at about 4.5 minutes in. This usually results in me completing breaking the pin off.

Maybe just more practice.

Sharp tools, reallllllyyyyy sharp. Notice how sharp his saw was and his chisels were just a sharp. It is an education to use really sharp tools and suddenly woodwork takes on a new dimension.

Originally Posted by Wongdai

Fascinating video. Ok, so I was getting the tails and pins mixed up in my terminology.

I do it in the same order as him, but I have to try (press) a lot harder to get the waste out than what he does at about 4.5 minutes in. This usually results in me completing breaking the pin off.

Maybe just more practice.

Have to agree with Mini and yourself on that one. Sharp tools, less pressure more practice. The only way to get to 100 dove tails is to do 99 first. Just by the by, I have just finished a job that required 134 hand cut little suckers and the last were better that the first.

Cheers


Steve

Always do the front and back of the drawer or whatever you're making first. I don't know what they're called, but the "female" parts. Yeah, we'll refer to them as that My Dad told me a way to cut them (that I couldn't be bothered to explain now as it's late and I had a couple of beers) that is really smart and works easily. All you need is half a hacksaw blade. Anyways PM me if you don't figure out your problem and I can give you a call and talk you through it if you want.

Anything for old Clarkie

P.S How's that chisel going?

Did you see this article of mine?

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...Dovetails.html

If you are interested, and others are equally keen, perhaps we can organised a workshop on handcut dovetails. Who wants one?

Regards from Perth

Derek

Hi

Yes, I did see that article, and it is very good, but doesn't cover the bit I'm having trouble with.

I'm also having trouble understanding how to mark it out efficiently, so a session in your shed would be much appreciated.

I can feel myself becoming obsessed with this whole hand-cut dovetail thing!

Originally Posted by Wongdai

I can feel myself becoming obsessed with this whole hand-cut dovetail thing!

Oh dear oh dear oh dear.

It's a slippery slope and then there is the other tribe.

Enjoy the journey.

I'd turn up for a workshop Derek but it's a hell of a long walk.

So thanks to you and other generous members posting tutorials and offering tips, I'll muddle through.

Still going to buy an Akeda jig, though not before I can produce a piece or two that I'd be willing to post on WWF.

Wongdai, "...feel myself becoming obsessed with...". Yep, same here, along with encouraging words from the family, as in "when are actually going to make something?".
"Soon dear, soon"

Good luck in your endeavours.

Cheers, Rod

Originally Posted by Wongdai

...
Can someone recommend a decent and fine dovetail saw to purchase. I am currently using one of those Japanese saws which is fine, but would like to try the more traditional backsaw approach..

Oh, and are all fret saws pretty much the same? i.e. just buy any?

Wongdai - no-one seems to have addressed this part of your post.
My recommendation would be one of the new Veritas saws, if you can bear the funny look (but you're already accustomed to those funny Japanese thingies, so p'raps it won't worry you at all ). I have only used one briefly, I hasten to add, but the saw I tried was quite nicely balanced & cut very well. A MUCH better bang for your buck than the ridiculously over-priced bits of rubbish sold by our well-known local purveyor of 'fine-tools'.

In my experience fretsaws are much of a muchness - i.e. they all have a tendency for their handles to fall off.....

In the Derek spirit I could offer to do a sawmaking, saw sharpening, sawing day at my shed sometime later in the year, for a small group (small shed!). Cutting dovetails is really just a matter of sawing accurately to a line - once you get that sorted, you'll wonder what the fuss was all about.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by IanW

Cutting dovetails is really just a matter of sawing accurately to a line - once you get that sorted, you'll wonder what the fuss was all about.

Cheers,

I've resisted posting in this thread thus far. The above is the most pertinent advice to date. If you scribe a series of lines down from the end of a board held vertically in a vice and can consistently cut squarely along their length, you can cut dovetails.

I think I have the cutting pretty right, its the clearing out the waste that is causing me the issues. Especially on half-blind dovetails.

IanW, I've definitely got my eye on the Veritas dovetail saw. Looks pretty reasonably priced too.

One trick is not to go for the really fine English pins to start off with. They look very spiffy but you can break them really easily. Try the broader European pins with thinner tails and then when you get good at those start thinning the pins

PS I have the Veritas dovetail saw and I love it