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  1. #1
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    Default Help ! Sagging Tool Cabinet Door.

    Hey guys,

    In the midst of making a wall cabinet for my hand tools (very long process when you have a 7 month old, whose now teething !) and I have made 1 of the 2 doors. Due to time issues (and not being courageous enough) to try M & T joints I have used butt joints with glue & dowell for the doors. As you can see the door is sagging. I'm not sure if it's the weight (not particularly heavy as the panels are only 6mm mdf) or if the hinges aren't aligned (they seem ok) and the left stile doesn't appear to move or sag ....



    Looking for any ideas on strengthening/supporting the door to bring it up level. Any ideas ? Happy to provide further info if my description/photos are too ambigious.
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  3. #2
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    Is the door square? Measure the diagonals...
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    Is the door square? Measure the diagonals...

    Sorry, should've clarified that. Yes it is square. This is my 2nd project, so very much a rookie !

  5. #4
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    If the door is square then I would guess the hinges are the concern. But really I am guessing.

    I will watch for what others think.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christos View Post
    If the door is square then I would guess the hinges are the concern. But really I am guessing.

    I will watch for what others think.
    Or maybe the panel that the door attaches to

  7. #6
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    OK, so from what you are saying, the bottom right corner of the door is lower than you expect. It's a bit hard to tell from the photos but it seems that the bottom left corner is flush with the cabinet but the bottom right corner is hanging lower, is that right?

    If so and the door itself is square, then either:

    1. The cabinet is not square
    2. The bottom of the cabinet is bowed upwards
    3. The hinges have too much play, which is allowing the door to drop
    4. The hinges are not aligned with the cabinet and door edges

    Or perhaps a combination of one or more of the above.

    Is the left stile of the door perfectly in line with the cabinet side?
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    OK, so from what you are saying, the bottom right corner of the door is lower than you expect. It's a bit hard to tell from the photos but it seems that the bottom left corner is flush with the cabinet but the bottom right corner is hanging lower, is that right?

    If so and the door itself is square, then either:

    1. The cabinet is not square
    2. The bottom of the cabinet is bowed upwards
    3. The hinges have too much play, which is allowing the door to drop
    4. The hinges are not aligned with the cabinet and door edges

    Or perhaps a combination of one or more of the above.

    Is the left stile of the door perfectly in line with the cabinet side?
    The left stile is in line with the cabinet. I will have to check the cabinet for square tonight (didn't think of that, but pretty sure it's ok). When I push the bottom right hand corner up the mdf "panel" shifts up as does the right stile and then drops down when i release it. I allowed a couple of mm all round when sizing the mdf panel, not sure if that is a factor ?

    If all else fails I will leave it on for now and make another door. Would you suggest a m & t door is stronger/more rigid and able to stay square without sagging (than a butt joint-dowell type of door ?
    Th

  9. #8
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    Ah, right well in that case it sounds like when the door is hanging, it is dropping out of square. That's called racking, it goes into a parallelogram shape. From what you describe, if you were to measure the diagonals when the door is hanging, they would be different.

    If that's the case then your joints aren't strong enough. M&T would be better but there's no reason a dowel joint won't suffice. You shouldn't be able to push the right stile up like that and change the shape of the door.

    If the panel is MDF then it's not necessary for it to be a floating panel, you could in fact fix the panel to the door frame, which would give it the bracing it needs. That could be as simple as gluing it in and making sure the door frame is square before it sets.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  10. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by silentC View Post
    Ah, right well in that case it sounds like when the door is hanging, it is dropping out of square. That's called racking, it goes into a parallelogram shape. From what you describe, if you were to measure the diagonals when the door is hanging, they would be different.

    If that's the case then your joints aren't strong enough. M&T would be better but there's no reason a dowel joint won't suffice. You shouldn't be able to push the right stile up like that and change the shape of the door.

    If the panel is MDF then it's not necessary for it to be a floating panel, you could in fact fix the panel to the door frame, which would give it the bracing it needs. That could be as simple as gluing it in and making sure the door frame is square before it sets.
    This sounds like the best solution ! Is it possible to somehow heat the joints (or use water ?) to dissuade the glue enough to allow me to disassemble the frame ? I have used titebond II to glue the dowell .... If I can manage this I will reglue the joints after I glue in the mdf panel. Many thanks for your help

  11. #10
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    Titebond I I is supposed to be water resistant so unlikely to dissolve with application of water. To break the glue joint might need to cut out of tap out. But with today's modern glues it is more likely to break wood than glue.

    Could be a way to squeeze glue into the panel is what I would try.

  12. #11
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    Yes you can soften PVA with water but Titebond II is water resistant.

    The joints sound like they are loose already, so you might be able to force it apart with a spreader - one of those cheap Irwin bar clamps with the fixed head attached to the other end of the bar:

    sl300-one-handed-bar-clamps-spreaders-74.jpg
    But if the joints are sound, then either glue as suggested by Christos, or just put some screws in from the back of the door and through the panel (Assuming it's housed in a groove).
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  13. #12
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    Or simply glue & screw another sheet of MDF to the back of your door, and not try to dismantle it. That will certainly stop wracking...
    Cheers,
    IW

  14. #13
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    If it was just the dowel holes you glued.
    You could try just drilling out the dowels with a smaller drill bit then original used
    Ie if you used say a ten mm bit drill them out with a 9mm bit

  15. #14
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    PVA glue will come apart if you heat the joint with a heat gun.
    Once it softens, tap apart with a mallet.

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