Thread: HELP!! Sanding the inside of a rounded archy bit of pine

Originally Posted by Treecycle

Unfortunately I don't think we can get those out here without paying a fortune in shipping fees from the US and I don't think we have a local equivalent except in giant machines.
I think I remember seeing some contour sanders a while back but I just can't recall what brand they were and where to get them, but from what I remember they could be used to clean up the roundover you did with the trim router. Hopefully someone recalls them and can advise.
If you are using flap wheels like these you can run them up against some round steel that matches the radius of your roundover and fairly quickly you will wear that shape into the wheel and that can be used to sand the roundover.
To do the main radius you could get one of these or these as mature one suggested. They both have up to a 75mm dia sleeves so would make sanding of the large radius easy.
What are you using to cut the large radius initially?

Dads cutting them on his milling machine which is 90% of the problem. You see my dads kind of like tim the tool man taylor. I ask for a spoon of sugar and he goes n finds a truck full. When i first started making these i used a hole saw and a router for the arches then cut through the middle of the holes. I soon learnt a template would be much quicker I ask him to make me one on his milling machine. He pipes up "oh you need a cnc router" i said fine ill go buy one and wait for it, he goes "NO ILL MAKE YOU ONE". Im still waiting for my barbie jeep he promised he was going to make me out of a lawnmower and some fiberglass when I was 7. Im 35 and still waiting....

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Originally Posted by Blackforester

For projects like yours that require contour sanding I made myself several sanding bows for different grits using the colour coded sanding cloth. One arm is fixed and the other arm has a sliding mortise when tapped to the end holds the sanding cloth in tension. I can sand quite aggressively and rapidly using this device. I use it for turnings, carvings and furniture parts.

lol i attempted to make a hack saw looking frame out of 19mm pine and the plan was to screw/glue/staple a strip of sandpaper where the blade ends go. I on my 3rd attempt i snaped one end AGAIN and had a major tanty and that bastard and all my previous attempts went into the workshop furnace! Your design is much better than mine.

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Originally Posted by Optimark

I would suggest you could think about a Wasp sander that will fit onto a vertical drill press. These are very handy and cheap, with the added bonus that you can change to almost any available sandpaper made for belt sanders. I would think what you are wishing to sand, could be done with one of these.

If you would like to try one, I have one currently sitting idle. It is used by me, but not that often. The version I have, is the original version, I see that they are now up to version 3. I live about 30 minutes from your suburb.

Check out the third video clip, I think that is how it could best be used by you.

Wasp Sander Mk 3 [WASP-Mk3], The Australian made , designed Wasp Sander is Australiaâ€[emoji769]s most versatile Belt Sander. The sander can be attached to any drill press.By using your drill press you can alter the speed of your belt sander to suit different

Don't have a drill press, I may be able to get a small one you could borrow.

Mick.

Hey Mick I have a drill press. I claimed it when my accountant boyfriend moved in LOL MINE! I have a carbatec belt sander and seprate drum sander(i only work with kiln dried pine so the resin build up renders the drum useless). My bat cave is in a state of constant chaos trying to cough "refine" my hectic manufacturing practices. My ideas of a flowing production line dont match what's in front of me. Im a one woman army in my workshop building stuff, Thers never enough ours in my day living on the farm and having 2 boys under 4. Your welcome to come check out my digs and give me some pointers


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Originally Posted by BobL

or, you can keep going with what your'e doing and eventually you will develop stronger wrists and hands.

Ive been doing it painfully for 3ish years and im soo over it. My business is growing and Im wasting endless hours googling solutions to my limited self taught skills. I always feel like im chasing my tail. Time to broaden my woodworking village so thats why im here

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Depending on how ambitious you would like to get. You could make something similar to a cnc profile sanding head for use on a drill press at low RPM with light pressure. High rpm and heavy pressure will result in two things. 1. burn out the sandpaper in a blink of an eye. 2. break the drill press.

Something along the lines of https://www.hoechsmann.com/en/lexiko...disc_aggregate

Originally Posted by Arron

Actually, I think you are already onto the best tool for the job, the flap wheel. Perhaps the problem is using them in a drill or drill press is a bit wimpy so progress is slow, and it’s not very ergonomic so lots of hand-stress is involved

Check out using one of these in an angle grinder

Flap Wheel for Angle Grinder 125mm x 20 x AO80 Grit | Sheffield Blades NZ | Cutting Tools and Power Tool Accessories

Angle grinders run much quicker and when running a flap wheel they hog the timber off much quicker. They’re more controllable too.

You could probably also find a use for the more conventional style of angle grinder flap wheel when blending in the outside edges, which is like this

https://www.abtec4abrasives.com/230-...407-3331-p.asp

Cheap solution too, which means if you don’t like them then nothing lost.

I do like Auscabs recommendation of an oscillating edge sander too. They run very quickly and nothing removes timber faster. The problem is their radius would suit the bigger curves but probably not the castellations.

Cheers
Arron

Hey Arron thanks for replying, your angle grinder idea is fantastic. In my early google attempts to find a solution, I came across the sand paper man and videos of flap wheels and sanding mops on angle grinders. I ordered 2 flap wheels but it was a Friday night and I being an impatient female decided to make a DIY flap wheel/sanding mop contraption out of little strips of sandpaper, a bolt, nuts and 2 mudguard washers. I popped it in my ryobi drill and surprisingly it worked better than i thought it would. Then I found these and thought if i could bend it into a U shape with the profile facing outwards that might work. They were out stock so I attempted to make one out of a 30mm (ish) size rubber hose by slicing it longways and inverting it to give me a similar shape. Then I used spray adhesive to attatch foam and sandpaper. Sadly it didn't work like i had envisioned it in my head.

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Couple of things:

Looking at your website (assuming the sales website is yours), I notice not all of your product has crenellations which are both sanded and rounded over. If you don’t have to do the rounding over then it makes the job easier and a spindle sander might indeed be the best option, rather then a flap wheel.

I also note with alarm your comments about sore hands. As a person who has suffered lifelong RSI because he didn’t listen to the warnings other people were trying to give him, I say be very careful about this. Some people are constructed such that they don’t have to worry about repetition work, others of us are not, but you only find out which category you are in after it’s too late.

Cheers
Arron

I had another think about this last night. It interests me because I once designed a set of modular cat wall furniture which had a lot of similarities - though I never went forward to actually produce it.

So, forgive me if I’m stating the obvious, but if I was making these what I would do is.

Starting with the castle corner tower.
Determine your maximum selling price - you probably know this already. Stretch it a little, you may get a pleasant surprise, though I understand you are constrained by your customer demographic and the utility of the product.

Take out your materials cost and other costs.

Work out how much labour you can do to match what remains. Looking at it as a series of processes, I reckon these are the only ones allowed
Cut to shape.
Drill the screw holes.
Sand the curves using a spindle sander (preferably oscillatingj very quickly, just a few seconds per curve. The workpiece remains flat on the sander table so it ergonomic.
Do a very small roundover using a router table with roundover bit. Again the workpiece remains flat on the table so it’s accurate and ergonomic. Don’t sand this edge, it has to go out as is, though being a very small cut it should be pretty good.
Put it through a drum sander, which should eliminate most of the whiskery bits as well prepping the flats.
Inspect the workpiece with a piece of sandpaper in your hand as a very quick quality control.
Done, that has to be it, don’t frig with it further.

How is this different:

Looking at the pictures on the website you’re doing a lot of detail work sanding and rounding over the crenulations and the entry holes, probably to make it appear soft-edged, hand-friendly and rabbit-friendly. Detail work like that is what always sucks up the time and destroys the profit. So avoid it. The rabbits don’t care, and I suspect most of your customers don’t care as much about it as you think. I would take the view that even if I’m wrong and it does add to your product’s appeal it’s still just not practical to incorporate it.

Also, I would change the semicircular entry hole to an oval one. Not quite as stylish, but much easier to produce. The semicircle has two internal corners which can only really be hand sanded, so is time consuming to produce. Look for other similar economies.

I hope I’m not insulting you by reiterating what you already know.
Cheers
Arron

Ps. Then look at cat stuff. People will pay a lot more fore cat paraphernalia then rabbit stuff, especially if it sits in the living room on display, so to speak.

Originally Posted by Arron

I had another think about this last night. It interests me because I once designed a set of modular cat wall furniture which had a lot of similarities - though I never went forward to actually produce it.

So, forgive me if I’m stating the obvious, but if I was making these what I would do is.

Starting with the castle corner tower.
Determine your maximum selling price - you probably know this already. Stretch it a little, you may get a pleasant surprise, though I understand you are constrained by your customer demographic and the utility of the product.

Take out your materials cost and other costs.

Work out how much labour you can do to match what remains. Looking at it as a series of processes, I reckon these are the only ones allowed
Cut to shape.
Drill the screw holes.
Sand the curves using a spindle sander (preferably oscillatingj very quickly, just a few seconds per curve. The workpiece remains flat on the sander table so it ergonomic.
Do a very small roundover using a router table with roundover bit. Again the workpiece remains flat on the table so it’s accurate and ergonomic. Don’t sand this edge, it has to go out as is, though being a very small cut it should be pretty good.
Put it through a drum sander, which should eliminate most of the whiskery bits as well prepping the flats.
Inspect the workpiece with a piece of sandpaper in your hand as a very quick quality control.
Done, that has to be it, don’t frig with it further.

How is this different:

Looking at the pictures on the website you’re doing a lot of detail work sanding and rounding over the crenulations and the entry holes, probably to make it appear soft-edged, hand-friendly and rabbit-friendly. Detail work like that is what always sucks up the time and destroys the profit. So avoid it. The rabbits don’t care, and I suspect most of your customers don’t care as much about it as you think. I would take the view that even if I’m wrong and it does add to your product’s appeal it’s still just not practical to incorporate it.

Also, I would change the semicircular entry hole to an oval one. Not quite as stylish, but much easier to produce. The semicircle has two internal corners which can only really be hand sanded, so is time consuming to produce. Look for other similar economies.

I hope I’m not insulting you by reiterating what you already know.
Cheers
Arron

Ps. Then look at cat stuff. People will pay a lot more fore cat paraphernalia then rabbit stuff, especially if it sits in the living room on display, so to speak.

where are you located? I totally need an outsiders fresh eyes. And thanks for taking the time to look at my site. I do EVERYTHING myself but now its time to refine my practices as im starting to drown in the typical sole traders hole.

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Crystal

I saw this thread late on so I have the benefit of seeing everybody else's ideas first.

I imagine, but could be wrong in the way I so frequently am, that this is a supplementary exercise for you. I am guessing this as I saw somewhere else on the Forum that you have fallen into woodworking. A lot of us here are fallen and some are still falling, but that is another subject.

The crux of the matter is that I assume you wish to make some pin money (or beer money). That immediately means anything you consider has to be relative to the level of production at which you are aiming. On the Forum we tend to get carried away with our enthusiasm and begin to recommend solutions that are just not viable. So as with safety and the hierarchy of control, the first thing would be to engineer out the problem and eliminate the tearout you are experiencing with the pine. You may be able to source a better timber or as Fencefurniture suggested, try taking shallower cuts with the router. I would suggest you experiment there: Try one or two cuts followed by the barest trim to finish. This may sound fussy but you will be able to move the machine faster than if you were taking a single cut and if it saves tedious sanding it will be worth the extra passes with the router. I expect the tearout is occurring where you are travelling against the grain on the curves.

This may improve your result, but still not eliminate the problem so onto sanding. The purchase of a bobbin type sander would probably work well but may be well outside the realm of economics. The Wasp sander is well worth a look, but only if you have a drill press or are thinking of purchasing one.

The best hand sanding alternative I believe is the McFarlane bow sander made by Evan Dunstane and suggested by Optimark early on in this thread. I have several of these devices so I don't have to change grits so often, but even a single unit would work well as grit changing is easy. They were developed for sanding awkward rounded components in chairs. They work even better than you might imagine. ( I have no affiliation with the company) There are several u tube videos but this is one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ci5XSQ55tps

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by trippz

where are you located? I totally need an outsiders fresh eyes. And thanks for taking the time to look at my site. I do EVERYTHING myself but now its time to refine my practices as im starting to drown in the typical sole traders hole.

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I’m on the Central Coast of NSW, unfortunately.

I would like to provide some further advice though. Again, I hope this doesn’t insult you by telling you what you know already.

A few years ago i did sell self-made wooden products on a website, though, and I learnt a lot. It was ultimately a very successful website, all things considered. These tips might be helpful.

1. Dedicate a lot of time to SEO. My website did just ok till I made a big effort on SEO - then it went nuts, I think quadrupling hits in the space of a few weeks. There are many free tools out there that help you understand your page ranking, how your site interfaces to web engine search, where your visitors come from, how they navigate your site etc. Google Analytics is a good start.

2. Personalise your site. People want to know who you are and what you look like. My old boss used to say ‘people only buy from people they like’, so let them like you. Photos of you cuddling rabbits etc etc work wonders. People would rather buy from a small vendor, especially if they think they’re helping a small vendor along, then from a nameless faceless megacorp - especially if you are in the same demographic as your customers.

3. Good photos are super important. Let people see the product from every angle, in situ and in studio, with and without people and rabbits. High quality photos with good lighting - people respond to that like magic. Never assume your customer will automatically understand your product.

4. If you don’t already, offer a complete, immediate, no questions asked money back guarantee, and make it highly visible. Remember a lot of people are suspicious of buying things they can’t see, so help them over the hump. If your product is good, the likelihood of anyone ever actually wanting their money back is minute, I can tell you that from experience.

For my product the website worked well. Markets were too much time and labour to be worthwhile. Galleries and shops want 100% markup which is money you could be pocketing. Etsy and EBay got me a few sales but not enough, I used them mainly as a way to drive business to the website. Facebook was just starting to become a worthwhile source of buyers so I can’t comment on it. Every product is different though.

I also used to encourage as many people as possible to pick the product up in person. It allowed me to understand the customer, how they viewed the product,and what was important to them. They just used to come to my home in the suburbs for pickup, but I think they got a kick out of seeing the craftsman in his natural habitat.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Arron

Cheers, I wish you every success and don’t be hesitant to ask for help on the forum or by pm.

What is the name of the website or is there a clue in the posts?

Originally Posted by Treecycle

What is the name of the website or is there a clue in the posts?

ohh ill make it cryptic its in my first post

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I think maybe that's the first post on the forum, not the first in this thread. I found the site via Google searching and a little estimating, and I see no clues in the first thread post here.