Thread: The Hobbyist and Technology

Originally Posted by orraloon

The guy who made that in New Guinea would have used the most high tech gear he could lay hands on. He would also have been more craftsman than hobbyist. Perhaps artist even. I don't think neolithic peoples had time for hobbies. Life was too hard and they did not have the luxury of choice we do. Very skilled work all the same. I think we with the luxury of choice would just like a little bit of what he had going on.

It depends where they lived. North American indigenous peoples on the North West coast could on average collect/grow/make enough food/shelter/clothing to feed, clothe and shelter themselves with just 5 hours of work a day. Some Australian indigenous groups approached that sort of figure as well. This is why they thought Europeans were nuts to work 8-10 hours a day.

Something else to bear in mind is how much longer is woodwork with real wood likely to be a hobby. The way we are going, within a couple of hundred years real wood may be only available to folks with deep pockets.

What about this 30m long all timber bridge.
Produced from locally sourced and milled timber.
All parts, joints, and holes made with a Hundegger timber processing machine controlled by a programmer.
Assembled by hand on the factory floor and delivered some 10km using a prime mover attached to the front and a drive by Wifi battery powered 8 wheeled jinker at the rear.
Side clearance from buildings when passing through some of the local villages was less than 100mm.
Bridge2.jpg

Bridge3.jpg

bridgedetail.jpg

As a some of you here would know I have been involved with building a prototype router table largely driven by computer code and stepper motors and proven so far to do what was asked of it, I haven't built my own yet but it is not far away. A few days ago Derek posted a method of making mortice and tenons and I reckon this new table would do that very accurately and with little or no touch up work after the joint was made. The beauty of this table is that I could go back to it a year later and providing the stock was dimensioned the same do the job with no measurement because the job was saved into memory. Is that "cheating"? It was this RT that caused me to ask the question, is it overkill for a hobbyist, certainly for a production workshop it is most probably ideal. yesterday I came across a home made digital fence for a mitre saw and it would not be too hard to make a copy for around the same price the Incra fences on my mitre bench cost me. A step too far??

Yet another Router table build.

Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts out there as I know some are essentially hand tool woodworkers who absolutely enjoy it with no electrons.

Originally Posted by BobL

It depends where they lived. North American indigenous peoples on the North West coast could on average collect/grow/make enough food/shelter/clothing to feed, clothe and shelter themselves with just 5 hours of work a day. Some Australian indigenous groups approached that sort of figure as well. This is why they thought Europeans were nuts to work 8-10 hours a day. ........

You beat to to reply, Bob.

So true, there is also a religious motivation involved. Somewhat akin to the medievil lords and stonemasons building cathedrals.

I have watched kundus being made using traditional means. First, there is an incredibly high level of design and craft involved - any guitar makers reading will understand:

1. Note that the kundu is assymetric - the left and right sides are tuned to different musical frequencies,
2. The slope of the walls as well the size affects the musical tone,
3. Different woods and densities are very relevant,
4. The thickness of the walls is judged by eye and fingers,
5. Each clan has a slightly different design ethos - what Aus Aboriginals would describe as "owning" the story,
6. Some "makers" are more competent than others.
7. There can be religious aspects in the making and the use of a kundu. Vaguely like the blessing of an organ that can then be used in church and at rock concerts.

Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by BobL

..... Something else to bear in mind is how much longer is woodwork with real wood likely to be a hobby. The way we are going, within a couple of hundred years real wood may be only available to folks with deep pockets.

Not so sure, Bob.

I worked as an economist involved with forestry in PNG years ago. When clear felled for saw logs plus chips a typical tropical lowlands forest yielded about 250 cubic metres of logs per hectare. When cut for saw logs only, then a little over half that figure.

In the same areas, typical incremental growth rates in timber plantations were 60 - 75 m3 per hectare per annum. Thus after 10 years a hectare of plantation might contain 750 m3 of harvestable logs. This is way more efficient than natural regrowth, and you choose the species mix.

There are now massive areas of plantation maturing on all continents. I do not see a future shortage of timber.

However the nature of the timber is changing and I see this as a significant issue.

Perhaps I can illustrate by reference to E globulus - Tasmanian blue gum - which grows naturally in Tasmanian and Victorian lowlands, and which there are small areas of plantation in Tasmania, large areas of plantation in Western Australia and massive plantations in Europe, South America, Africa and Asia.

But I would argue that from a craftsman's perspective there are three distinct "types" of E globulus in Tasmania alone, perhaps more elsewhere:

1. Old growth - rich dark brown timber, was the favourite timber for ship building in the nineteenth century - google "blue gum clippers" - difficult to use but rewarded skilled - very hard -janka 12 kN - loggers only harvest it "on request" because of its "difficult" reputation,
2. Regrowth - slightly lighter colour and slightly wider growth rings - still has reputation for being "contankerous" - marginally softer with janka hardness 10.5 kN - some used for flooring, bridges, heavy structures, etc,
3. Plantation - much lighter, softer, and much lighter colour, often similar to mountain ash - janka hardness around 6.5-7 kN - some attempts are being made to create a market presence for this timber as Tasmanian blue gum or southern blue gum, but at least one major supplier is mixing it into their Tasmanian oak blend.

The density and mechanical specifications of these three "types" of E globulus also vary widely and consistently, but I do not have them in front of me now. In fact, the timbers vary so much - when presented with a piece of old growth and a sample of plantation globulus, I would suggest that very few experienced woodworkers would deduce that they are the same species.

But the woodworker will have very different views of a hard, rich dark brown timber with 25 growth rings to the inch as compared to a softer, lighter, straw coloured timber with growth rings 10 mm wide.



Fair Winds

Graeme

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

..... Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts out there as I know some are essentially hand tool woodworkers who absolutely enjoy it with no electrons.

Hi Chris

That is not quite true - the steel in my hammer contains quite a few molecules of iron and each molecule of iron has 26 electrons.
Chemical Elements.com - Iron (Fe)

Sometimes I really wield those electrons!



Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Not so sure, Bob.

I worked as an economist involved with forestry in PNG years ago. When clear felled for saw logs plus chips a typical tropical lowlands forest yielded about 250 cubic metres of logs per hectare. When cut for saw logs only, then a little over half that figure.

In the same areas, typical incremental growth rates in timber plantations were 60 - 75 m3 per hectare per annum. Thus after 10 years a hectare of plantation might contain 750 m3 of harvestable logs. This is way more efficient than natural regrowth, and you choose the species mix.

There are now massive areas of plantation maturing on all continents. I do not see a future shortage of timber.

Sure but this assume other factors stay the same.
I was thinking more about rapid climate change (and like coral reefs too quickly for forests to adapt) and the added risks of significant increases in forest fires. Under higher CO2 levels forests grow more rapidly but counteracting that pest outbreaks spread more rapidly and when the temperature gets high enough for long enough they also burn like tinder boxes. This has already been demonstrated in North America this summer with record numbers and acreage of forest fires.

Originally Posted by BobL

bridgedetail.jpg

Beautiful bridge, Bob.

Could you tell me your source, please. It looks like Japanese sashimono construction with zero metal fastenings.



Cheers

Graeme

Originally Posted by Chris Parks

As a some of you here would know I have been involved with building a prototype router table largely driven by computer code and stepper motors and proven so far to do what was asked of it, I haven't built my own yet but it is not far away. A few days ago Derek posted a method of making mortice and tenons and I reckon this new table would do that very accurately and with little or no touch up work after the joint was made.

The beauty of this table is that I could go back to it a year later and providing the stock was dimensioned the same do the job with no measurement because the job was saved into memory. Is that "cheating"?

Cheating?
IMO nope.
In essence, keeping the digital record is no different to keeping a project's story stick to use another time.

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Beautiful bridge, Bob.
Could you tell me your source, please. It looks like Japanese sashimono construction with zero metal fastenings.

I'm proud to say its the work of two of my Northern Italian Cousins.
see Automated milling and joinery

Originally Posted by BobL

I'm proud to say its the work of two of my Northern Italian Cousins.
see Automated milling and joinery

Thanks Bob

Had a quick look and will now do some serious googling. Loved their work.

Ever thought of inviting them to visit .... and while they are here you could knock up a new house ..... or two.

I am not sure if you are aware of sashimono, but I suspect it will appeal to you on both the aesthetic and intellectual levels.


Cheers

Graeme

I think there can be a balance between technology and traditional woodworking, traditional woodworking can be a hobby, the fun can be had with small number of hand tools, the tooling has been around for thousands of years, yes sure you can integrate technology with traditional tools, but how many people in 100 or 100,000 will buy a product like that? Not a lot. How many woodworker around the globe has bought a Voyager drill? Not a lot. Does it cost a lot? More than a lot of hobbyist can afford for a machine that only does hole drilling.

Therefore I think for the foreseeable future, there wont be a lot of change to wood working. Maybe nano technology and the coatings to tools but a chisel is a chisel.

I just looked back to check the original question. It was, "should the average hobbyist embrace new technology or not."

I think the average hobbyist should do whatever brings them pleasure. That would be the main point of a hobby. Would it not?

For some that will mean doing things a certain way. For others it will be trying all sorts of things in a variety of ways. For others it will be somewhere in the infinite shades of in between.

One of the beautiful things about modern woodwork is that it is so diverse that it can cater to all kinds of people and interests and skill levels. There are so many aspects which one can take up or one can leave to others.
You can spend tens of thousands, you can spend years developing skills or you can make something with less than $50 and not much skill at all. And you can gain pleasure from all the levels in between.

And that is why it won't die out as a hobby but rather, continue to expand. IMHO.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Originally Posted by GraemeCook

Ever thought of inviting them to visit .... and while they are here you could knock up a new house ..... or two

I suspect the cost of transporting the Hundegger might approach the cost of a house before materials are even considered.

I am not sure if you are aware of sashimono, but I suspect it will appeal to you on both the aesthetic and intellectual levels.

Yes I do and I find it very appealing.

That side of my family are very creative. One of the cousins was a custom jeweller, another is an artist and fabric painter, another pair of cousins invented an ink printing on plastic (sports boots/shoes etc) process and have made more money from the IP side than the actual printing side.