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29th February 2024, 03:12 PM #16
Possibly.
I think there could be 2 different ways to do it based on the way I am thinking of.
The first way, as I explained in my other post, would need the round shaped bit formed as an oval, so that when it exits the side, and is planed flat, it will look circular.
The other way would be to cut the round part at 90 degrees to the sides, as shown in the CAD drawings back up top, and cut the corresponding “hole” as the drawings, but widen the hole into a slot that goes out at 45 at the back of the board but keep the exit hole round, so that it can be assembled in the same way.
Not sure if my explanation is understandable, if not I could draw a picture and post a photo of it. I don’t have any CAD program to draw it up.Brad.
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29th February 2024, 11:40 PM #17
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29th February 2024, 11:56 PM #18
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1st March 2024, 09:39 AM #19
I'm trying to ignore this little fact but I know all the thoughts I'm having have been thought before.
Nevertheless I'm going out on a limb to say there are only two initial moves possible when disassembling the joint and I think only one of those allows the complete disassembly of the joint. Just need to work out how to disassemble it and run it in reverse. If he'd left a clue, such as the top and bottom fingers being on different boards that would have eliminated one of them. But I think I might be up to where you are Graeme, now working out how to put words into joinery
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1st March 2024, 11:20 AM #20
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1st March 2024, 11:39 AM #21
Current Position
We haven't advanced very far. I have a hypothesis that I want to test but cannot work out how to craft stage 1.
As stated before, I do not want to reveal my "magic" stage 2 at this point in time. None of Yazawa's dramatic: "My secrets will go to my grave"; I just do not want to add to the long list of "solutions" that did not work.
My big question is: How do I cut the joints depicted below?
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1st March 2024, 01:26 PM #22
If it just for testing the possible ways to assemble the joint, perhaps you could concentrate on assembly only by dummying up the fingers first by drilling holes in the appropriate mortise locations, then cutting a standard finger joint followed by inserting some dowels into the locations of the cylindrical tenon locations?
Franklin
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1st March 2024, 02:12 PM #23
My answer to that without giving away what I'm going to try for the first part of cutting the joint is to truncate the 'dowel' part at about the depth of their diameter, then you only have to shape maybe an 8mm deep circle. It's pretty clear that the joint can't go together with the dowels in the guts of the joint. As far as how to cut the joint, I'm keeping my idea close to my chest until it's added to the list of failures.
Setting aside compressing the small section remaining as a last resort...
Here are the obvious things I repeat to myself which help limit the path the assembly must take. The internal corner is a perfect corner, there are no cuts beyond the lines of the corner. The only path the dowels can take is in through the part of the joint that will be buried or exactly through the hole from the outside. The through fingers on the top and bottom cannot be moved 'out of the way' by bending, splitting along the grain etc. Ultimately the assembly method must be compatible with box construction - you've got to make a rectangle/square.
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1st March 2024, 06:26 PM #24
Thanks, Franklin
My first reaction is that is great idea for proof of concept. I will do a CAD drawing - should verify its validity.
But after we prove the concept, we are back to the original question:
How do we cut the complex keyhole tenons and mirror mortices?
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2nd March 2024, 05:35 PM #25
Franklin's Concept
I have drawn Franklin's concept and it looks feasible.
Dowel Trial 1.jpg Start with two sides of timber
Drill dowel holes Dowel Trial 2.jpg
Dowel Trial 3.jpg Cut finger joints
Assemble finger joints Dowel Trial 4.jpg
Dowel Trial 5.jpg Insert dowels
But we didn't really want dowels Dowel Trial 6.jpg
Thanks, Franklin, this has proved how it might go together and has given me some ideas on how I might actually cut it. Need to think it through a little more. And the level of precision required is daunting.
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2nd March 2024, 05:47 PM #26
Graeme did you receive my pm?
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2nd March 2024, 06:57 PM #27
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2nd March 2024, 08:05 PM #28
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2nd March 2024, 09:23 PM #29
That is certainly one way to imitate the look but there are no advantages structurally over a plain finger joint, nor creating the "howhedodat" factor. In the original photos there is perfect end grain match across the "dowel" portion into the remainder of the fingers, so definitely not how they were done.
A close inspection of all the images I can find of these joints leads me to believe they aren't even glued, so appear to rely entirely on the mechanical design for the joints structural integrity.Last edited by Mobyturns; 2nd March 2024 at 11:33 PM. Reason: added last line.
Mobyturns
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2nd March 2024, 09:44 PM #30
I was never suggesting this as a method for actual construction. I was simply trying to suggest a way of constructing prototype mortice and tenon elements that can be played around with (and modified as required) easily enough to test possible assembly methods. Clearly these profiles can't be cut from solid timber as is and assembled as the final joint.
Work out how to assembly the joint first, then worry about how to cut the joinery.
Just sayin..Franklin
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