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  1. #1
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    Default L'invincible S50 Thicknesser- inbuilt blade grinder question?

    I have owned this machine for quite some time and am pretty happy with it.
    DSCF4379.JPG
    One thing about it that I have never really understood properly though is the inbuilt blade grinder that it comes with.
    DSCF4383.JPG
    I understand how it's meant to work but I don't see how your supposed to get the correct grind angle on the blades. Here is a picture with the cover removed to better illustrate the situation.
    DSCF4380.JPG And even a close up shot to really home in on the problem area........
    DSCF4381.JPG Even though you can adjust the height of the wheel the problem is that I can't see how you can possibly grind the blade to the correct angle. Sure you could grind a new angle but it would be way too flat compared to the angle thicknesser blades are usually ground.
    Am I missing something here?
    Hoping there is someone out there who also has one of these machines and knows how to get the correct angle, somewhere close to 40 degrees.

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  3. #2
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    Gidday

    There is a spring loaded dog on the right hand side that engages with the cutting head. When engaged you should have the correct bringing angle. I have never used mine as I am changing over to a helical head. I do have a copy of the manual and parts breakdown if that helps. Do you have the genuine blade setting gauge?

    Cheers
    Bevan
    There ain't no devil, it's just god when he's drunk!!

    Tom Waits

  4. #3
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    Hi Enfeild Guy
    The spring loaded dog is engaged in the pictures. Hopefully the last picture shows that the angle of grind is not going to match the angle on the blade.
    No I do not have the original blade setting gauge, the machine did not come with it unfortunately. I use a set of those adjustable magnetic ones which at least set all 4 blades at the same height.
    Perhaps the original setting gauge sets the blades much further out from the cutterblock?
    Is there any instructions in the manual about using the grinder?
    Thanks

  5. #4
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    What are you basing the 'correct angle' on? If you've been using a blade sharpening service, their angle may not match the angle of the built in grinder.

    We've also ditched ours in favour of a Shelix head, but I used it for several years and the angle on yours looks right.

    I'll try and remember to have a look at the instructions tomorrow for you.

    I'm pretty sure we still have the original setting jig, I'll see if the boss is happy to part with it.

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by elanjacobs View Post
    What are you basing the 'correct angle' on? If you've been using a blade sharpening service, their angle may not match the angle of the built in grinder.
    .
    Well that sure is an interesting question Bevan!.
    My blades in both my thicknesser and planer are ground to 40 degrees. Reckon the blades in my hand planes are pretty close to that as well.
    A quick search on google however revealed no end of proffered angles.
    Today I called the people who I get to sharpen and supply my blades and asked them if they had an angle that they generally use, or did they try to match the angle that is on a particular persons blades when they bring em in for sharpening?.
    The reply was that they use the angle specified by the blade producer and that different blades require different angles.
    I told them about the grinding attachment on my machine and the differing angle. They said that "those grinding attachments are really only designed as a quick touch up thing to be used once or twice in between proper grinds".
    They went on to say if you use the attachment it makes their subsequent grind much more time consuming.
    To me it seems like a win lose situation.
    Anyway.....
    As I have a spare set of blades for my planer(which were blunt and had become a bit rusty) I decided to go and see what could be done with the grinding wheel on my thicknesser.
    DSCF4391.JPGNormally I set the blades so that the back of the bevel is very close to the cutterblock.
    I found out that by setting the blade about 3.5mm further out......
    DSCF4389.JPG and raising the height of the grinding wheel to it's maximum height.......
    DSCF4390.JPG that the grinding angle appeared to be closer to what I was after, compared to the 4th picture in my first post anyway.
    DSCF4393.JPGHere is the result after a few passes on the grinder! 40 degree blade on the left and the newly ground one on the right.
    I measured the angle of the new bevel, only 20 degrees!. No where near acceptable in my mind.
    Looks like more like a lose/lose situation now.
    It is a great idea to have a sharpening attachment on your thicknesser but you would've thought they could have designed the thing to grind a somewhere near acceptable angle at least or even easily adjustable at best. I guess thats why folk seldom seem to use these things.
    Was also a bit alarmed at the amount of metal grindings the process deposited into the machine, it needed a good blast of compressed air afterwards.

  7. #6
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    Took some pics of the relevant pages, they got rotated for some reason, but they're here:
    IMAG0847.jpgIMAG0848.jpgIMAG0849.jpg



    We ONLY used the built in grinder, the only time it got professionally ground blades was when they got too small and needed to be replaced. Never had a problem with it. We put down newspaper over the feed rollers to protect them from oil and to catch the metal dust, but there should be an adjustable metal tab on the grinder to catch most of it.

  8. #7
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    Hi Elanjacobs. Thankyou for taking the time to photograph and send the snippets from the instruction manual. I have studied them closely and am now at a complete loss as to why my setup grinds such a flat angle on the knives!. The manual says the angle of grind should be 42 degrees, which would suit me fine. Wonder why I am only getting 20 degrees?. Everything else looks like it should as per the drawings. Will go and double check with a magnifying glass tomorrow to see if something is out of place.
    If you or Enfield Guy have changed over to helical heads and no longer need your correct setting gauge I'd be happy to buy one of them and pay for the postage. Would also be keen to get a photo copy of the manual for an agreed price as well.

  9. #8
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    Had a look for the setting gauge yesterday and couldn't find it. I don't remember tossing it, so I'll have another look.
    Manual is here: https://www.partspronto.com/MachineD...0OPS-MAINT.pdf It's for the S63, but they're essentially the same machine, just bigger.

    The 20 degree angle is definitely weird. Especially since the 4th pic of your original post looks exactly how it's supposed to be

  10. #9
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    I've still got mine and you are welcome to it. only good to me for the scrap ali value. Pm me your details, address etc, and I'll work out the postage.

    Cheers
    Bevan
    There ain't no devil, it's just god when he's drunk!!

    Tom Waits

  11. #10
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    I could also copy the manual and parts breakdowns that I have and post them to you as well if you like.

    Cheers
    Bevan
    There ain't no devil, it's just god when he's drunk!!

    Tom Waits

  12. #11
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    What a great forum! I wish I knew about it when I bought this machine.
    Went out and had a really close inspection today.
    There were scars on the edges of the parts that clamp the knives to the cutterblock consistent with injuries you would expect to get if you turned the machine on without releasing that spring loaded dog.
    Reckon this has upset the apple cart in regards to where the spring loaded dog holds the cutterblock.
    Managed to do an unorthodox modification and get the angle of the grind spot on.
    Found out pretty quickly though that it was nigh on impossible to grind the blade no matter how fine a cut you take not to Blue it (and we all know that's not good). Also was surprised at the really feathery edge the grinder left on the blade,just begging to be touched up with a stone.
    Also raises the question, how long do the grinding wheels last? and When have they reached their serviceable limit?
    In the end I just put it all in the "too hard basket" and came to the realisation that paying a pro knife sharpener once or twice a year is not such a bad thing.

  13. #12
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    If you are bluing the knives the you are winding the grinder too slow, it is better to make several light passes rather than one haevy pass, you will have an edge that needs to be removed with a slip stone, proffesional sharpening also produces a edge that is removed with a stone

  14. #13
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    I found that dressing the grinding wheel before each use helped prevent bluing, but you do have to move it relatively fast across the blades as well. Takes a bit of practice, but it is possible to grind with zero bluing.
    The edge does need a quick hone before use.
    As for useful life, when you can't adjust the wheel any closer it's time for a new one. Can't give you an exact time frame, but its to the order of many years.

  15. #14
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    China. Ok, that seems to make sense. Thought I was bluing them from taking a too heavy a cut and grinding too fast. So took a light cut and went really slow resulting in the bluing also. Guess I will get there with some practice. By the way not all professionally sharpened blades need to be honed. The guy who does mine sends them back with a near mirror finish on the beveled edge.

    Elanjacobs. Does your thicknesser have a wheel dressing unit attached to it just behind the cutterblock?. Mine does not but I seem to recall that there should be something there.

    Enfield Guy. I think I sent you an email re the setting gauge. Just not 100% as my sent items tab is out of action.

    Thanks for all the useful feedback you guys.

  16. #15
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    Yep got it. And replied. I'll also have a look at my grinder and see what I can see. If your engagement pin is bent or broken then that may well be your issue. I'll take a couple of photos of mine. Might help you decide. You could probably have that component from mine as the machine is currently disassembled for restoration. Just gotta get back to it. Too many jobs, too little time and money.

    Cheers
    Bevan
    There ain't no devil, it's just god when he's drunk!!

    Tom Waits

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