Thread: Massive Table Build

About all I can say is, that's quite the job ahead of you!

Given the amount of glueing that's going to be happening, I guess glue choice is going to be very important, and great care that all surfaces mate nicely - it will not be a good look to have small de-laminations showing up here & there. I have heard others say that SG can be difficult to glue, but I've not had any problems with it myself. I've built at least 4 benches from well-seasoned, and mostly recycled SG & used Titebond II or equivalent for all glued joints. They have all stood up well, & a workbench gets heavier use than a dining table (typically), but that is still a pretty limited amount of experience to draw on.

My other thought is, that is going to be one weighty table when done. Hope you have a gang of strong young blokes you can call up on moving day.....

Cheers,
Ian

I made a Low Dresser out of sandwiched Hoop pine floor boards that came from a Queensland house that the clients had renovated. The laminations were needed for some legs and rails but not the top , sides or drawer parts.
Nails were the worst thing to look out for. And the dirt/ sand that gets in cracks and T&G joins , which were all cut off with the band saw just 1 mm in from where they ended to avoid all the rubbish.

IMG_3244.jpg IMG_3243.jpg


If your making such a top, rather than laminate the whole top ,You could just laminate the edges say 100mm in from the sides and 3 or 400 in from the ends depending on the overhang of the top at the ends. Then support the top correctly across in a few spots with rails that make up for the step in thickness.

Or laminate the whole thing. As long as your getting paid well for all the extra work then its not going to be a problem.

For the top I would use a plywood substrate and glue the edges of the boards together, but fix the boards to the plywood by screwing up through the underside of the plywood to hold the boards in place, then put a lipping around the edge made from ripping down the boards, this would then cover the boards end grain at each end of the table top

Originally Posted by IanW

About all I can say is, that's quite the job ahead of you!

Given the amount of glueing that's going to be happening, I guess glue choice is going to be very important, and great care that all surfaces mate nicely - it will not be a good look to have small de-laminations showing up here & there. I have heard others say that SG can be difficult to glue, but I've not had any problems with it myself. I've built at least 4 benches from well-seasoned, and mostly recycled SG & used Titebond II or equivalent for all glued joints. They have all stood up well, & a workbench gets heavier use than a dining table (typically), but that is still a pretty limited amount of experience to draw on.

My other thought is, that is going to be one weighty table when done. Hope you have a gang of strong young blokes you can call up on moving day.....

Cheers,
Ian

Thanks for the input Ian.

Glueing properties of SG are officially reported as Poor however I dont really know what that translates to in the real world.

I use Titebond III for everything as I am to lazy to have multiple choices lying around.

Delivery is the clients issue ;-)

Figured I will build the frame first and then build the table top in-site on the frame. That way I never have to lift the whole thing

Originally Posted by auscab

I made a Low Dresser out of sandwiched Hoop pine floor boards that came from a Queensland house that the clients had renovated. The laminations were needed for some legs and rails but not the top , sides or drawer parts.
Nails were the worst thing to look out for. And the dirt/ sand that gets in cracks and T&G joins , which were all cut off with the band saw just 1 mm in from where they ended to avoid all the rubbish.


If your making such a top, rather than laminate the whole top ,You could just laminate the edges say 100mm in from the sides and 3 or 400 in from the ends depending on the overhang of the top at the ends. Then support the top correctly across in a few spots with rails that make up for the step in thickness.

Or laminate the whole thing. As long as your getting paid well for all the extra work then its not going to be a problem.

Fantastic work on the dresser. Legs and rails look great.

I had considered just making the edges thicker..... Thought this might result in the construction process being significantly harder. Especially when it comes to trying to keep the top flat and when connecting it to the base. Good in theory however has anyone actucally tried this in practice?

As for price, I never really know how to price these build however I have set the expectation that some of the money saved on timber will be lost to the extra labour required to get to desired thicknesses.

Originally Posted by Camelot

For the top I would use a plywood substrate and glue the edges of the boards together, but fix the boards to the plywood by screwing up through the underside of the plywood to hold the boards in place, then put a lipping around the edge made from ripping down the boards, this would then cover the boards end grain at each end of the table top

Thanks Camelot,

I do like the lipping idea however I have always found that the gross grain expansion would result in the lipping coming loose and misaligned over time. Any tips on how you have gotten around this?

Would you not have the same problem with screwing the ply to the underside of the table top? The ply won't move but the top definately will, especially over 1100mm.

Originally Posted by Damienol

While I cant see any major issues with this approach for the legs and side rails (happy to be corrected)...

I worry about the length of this four legged table. I built a 2900mm long merbau outdoor table with 120x50 rails and it sags in the middle. Being outside probably hasn't helped, but would be interested to hear from anyone who has made a table as long as you are proposing with only four legs.

Originally Posted by jack620

I worry about the length of this four legged table. I built a 2900mm long merbau outdoor table with 120x50 rails and it sags in the middle. Being outside probably hasn't helped, but would be interested to hear from anyone who has made a table as long as you are proposing with only four legs.

Ive made a similar sized table with a 45mm table top with no rails at all and not had any issues with sag. It alarms me to hear you have had issues.

How thick was you table top? Are you rails sagging?

It’s a good idea to give a longer top overhang on the ends to help with that .

For a table that size, I'd be using a torsion box construction. You will use less timber, you won't need ten men to move it, it won't warp, the glue joints aren't likely to spring apart and the machining will be much quicker and easier.
Regarding gluing properties of spotty, I've had failures, but not since I started wiping with acetone immediately before gluing up. Titebond III should be fine, and you'll welcome the longer working time. Just be sure you have lots of clamps.

Originally Posted by Damienol

Thanks Camelot,

I do like the lipping idea however I have always found that the gross grain expansion would result in the lipping coming loose and misaligned over time. Any tips on how you have gotten around this?

Would you not have the same problem with screwing the ply to the underside of the table top? The ply won't move but the top definately will, especially over 1100mm.

Regarding movement, if you can store the timber for a number of weeks in the room where the table will live to allow it to climatize this will reduce movement.

For the edge lipping use a double loose tongue, one part in the boards and the other in the substrate, also perhaps buy some more timber to make the lipping (maybe a contrast timber) then your not limited to section size.

When screwing up through the plywood substrate router out an elongated slot in the 3.6M direction and use a dome head screw rather than a countersunk one, this should allow for some movement (timber will move more in it's length than width), but if it's going to move the mitres on the lipping will open up first.

If you go the substrate route then you have a number of design options regarding how you lay the boards on the substrate, I have done a quick design pattern with the boards at different widths and cut into random short lengths.

Substrate.PNG Block Pattern.PNG

Originally Posted by Damienol

How thick was you table top? Are you rails sagging?

45mm. Yes the rails are sagging. It’s a very heavy table. The fact it gets wet for a few months of the year might be why it has sagged. The sag in the top isn’t really noticeable. It’s the splayed legs that catch your eye.

Originally Posted by jack620

45mm. Yes the rails are sagging. It’s a very heavy table. The fact it gets wet for a few months of the year might be why it has sagged. The sag in the top isn’t really noticeable. It’s the splayed legs that catch your eye.

Yup, I reckon it was the water. Horrible stuff

Originally Posted by Camelot

Regarding movement, if you can store the timber for a number of weeks in the room where the table will live to allow it to climatize this will reduce movement.

For the edge lipping use a double loose tongue, one part in the boards and the other in the substrate, also perhaps buy some more timber to make the lipping (maybe a contrast timber) then your not limited to section size.

When screwing up through the plywood substrate router out an elongated slot in the 3.6M direction and use a dome head screw rather than a countersunk one, this should allow for some movement (timber will move more in it's length than width), but if it's going to move the mitres on the lipping will open up first.

If you go the substrate route then you have a number of design options regarding how you lay the boards on the substrate, I have done a quick design pattern with the boards at different widths and cut into random short lengths.

Substrate.PNG Block Pattern.PNG

Thanks again Camelot and especially for the drawings,

Slight correction to what you have above in terms of movement. Movement occurs more tangentially and radially (across the grain) and negligibly along the grain. This would mean the elongated holes would need to be across the top. I am lucky enough to have a domino which makes very quick work of this.

The lipping connection method described makes sense however it doesn’t prevent the mitred edges from opening up which potentially will look very ugly over time.