Butt joining manufactured boards

**Arron** · 19th August 2003, 09:34 PM

Hi. I'm hoping to make some sliding wardrobe doors. I want to make them to look like that conventional style of cabinet making where you have a loose panel floating within a fixed frame, which I think are called rails and stiles. I want them to be Tassie Oak, but for reasons both economic and environmental, I want to use veneered particle board for the whole thing - except a narrow strip of solid timber around the outside and a moulding where the panel meets the frame. I know it would be straightforward to make them with a solid timber frame, but there are 8 of these doors and I think using that much timber is out of the question.

What I had in mind doing was slicing up some 25mm veneered particleboard for the frames, and some 15 or 18mm board for the panels. I thought I could then put a rebate around the edge of the panels, giving me a tongue about 10mm thick and 10mm deep all around. I would put a 10mm x 12mm groove in the frames to accept the tongue of the panel. I would then butt join the frame, using a double row of biscuits, uncompressed plywood ones so that there is no expansion going on. I thought I could use liberal glue to hold it solid and overcome the tendancy of the particleboard to chip. I believe I can even glue where the tongues of the panels are inside the frames, as there is no significant expansion/contraction going on. I would finally attach 10-20mm strips of well matched solid timber around the outside, to hide the particleboard and provide resistance to wear. Ditto the mouldings, to trim up the inside edge of the frame against the panel.

What I want to know is, is this a practical way to build something? Is something made like this likely to last? Is it practical to butt join partical board, and if so, have I chosen the best method or is there a better one? Obviously I'm strictly an amateur - I have the skills and tools to make the things but I'm just wondering if the idea is sound.

thanks for reading this far. Sorry about the long post.
Arron

**journeyman Mick** · 19th August 2003, 10:24 PM

They sound like they will be incredibly heavy doors and extremely labour intensive. Have you considered using a veneered ply panel instead? You can get a 4~5mm veneered ply or same thickness veneered on craftwood. This could then slip straight into your rebate. I think your method would produce doors that would tend to fail at the joints just under their own weight. If you're worried about the thin panels being a bit "drummy" you could glue fake midrails on the front of the panel or even several stiffeners on the back. Used to work in a large cabinet shop and we regularly butt joined board using standard biscuits with PVA and epoxy on the butt join itself. These were along fairly wide butt joins however, upwards of 400mm, I have never tried making a frame in the way you propose but I would have my doubts as to the structural integrity of the resulting doors.
You may want to price up making the doors with a solid timber frame and ply panels, you may be pleasantly surprised at the price comparison. As far as environmental considerations go, all that particle board was timber once too and I don't know that the particle board manufacturers are too fussy where they source their raw materials from. Not trying to shoot you down in flames here, just a bit of food for thought.

Plus I don't know about you but I don't think I've ever gained an ounce of satisfaction working with the stuff, it's heavy, unforgiving, weak and nowadays it's not even cheap! Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Mick

**Justin** · 19th August 2003, 11:23 PM

Hi Arron,

Agree with Mick that you're probably looking at a lot of weight and troublesome joinery by using particleboard. I too think that solid timber frames & ply panels is the way to go, but if you don't have access to a jointer and a thicknesser you'll have to buy DAR and I know that'll be quite expensive.

If you have no other option than to use manufactured board, perhaps you should consider veneered plywood. As long as it's decent quality (ie no large voids in the substrate), you may be able to do some decent joinery such as mortice & tenon, half lap or beadlock joints with it. At least this way you might be able to address some of the structural issues, and ply's a lot lighter than particleboard so the weight problem's fixed as well.

Good luck with your project,

Justin.

**Arron** · 19th August 2003, 11:53 PM

Thanks Guys. It looks like its back to the drawing board for me. At least I found out now, not after I built the doors and had them crumple under their own weight further down the track.

I have a jointer but not a thicknesser and the best price I can get on select quality Tassie Oak dar here in Sydney is about $10-15 per metre, depending upon the width of the rail (110-200mm) - I'll have to work that through but I think it does work out a bit expensive for me.

Mick, you correctly anticipated that I had rejected the idea of using ply because it will sound/feel a bit drummy. I might have to rethink that.

thanks anyway
Arron

**derekcohen** · 20th August 2003, 02:59 AM

Arron

Mick makes good points.

I have made numerous frame-and-panel doors using ply as the inner panel. In fact, I have used cheap industrial ply with interesting grain to great effect. 4-5mm thickness is ample. I have included an example of a sideboard I built in this manner (Karri top, Jarrah and ply doors).

Another point (some may disagree with this). The design of frame-and-panel doors, I believe, was to permit movement of the inner sold wood panel (because wood is unstable and will move). However, ply wood is quite stable and does not therefore require to fitted "loose". Therefore, if you are seeking added strength, glue the ply wood panels inside the frame.

Regards from Perth

Derek

**journeyman Mick** · 20th August 2003, 05:51 PM

Derek, I agree with you about gluing ply panels into frames. I've done so on quite a few jobs with no ill effect even after years of service. The best example is some work I did on a Marine Parks boat. Humidity levels up here are very high, especially during summer and 90% is not that unusual. The boat is air conditioned and this runs non stop when the boat is at sea. Obviously the AC dries the air right out, but as the vessel runs for maybe a month or two and then spends a few weeks tied up without the AC on the humidity levels fluctuate wildly. The job was done five years ago and they're still happy with it.

Mick

**soundman** · 20th August 2003, 11:39 PM

I tasy oak is a bit dear for you perhaps give this a thaught.
Use 10mm luan ply for the panel.
and selected meranti for the rails & styles. You will need to select your meranti for some harder stronger boards (ive seen this stuff so soft you could poke your finger thru it.

the luan & meranti look soo similar ( possibly the same spiecies)

with a littel work on finish can look realy good.

10mm luan shouldn't drumm too badly and is quite strong.

Also I wouldn't bother with the groove because you probably will not see the rear of the door often I'd just rebate from the back of the rails & styles.

Yeah I'd glue the panel in too.

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