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  1. #1
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    Default mortise and tenon or half lap?

    Am making these lip edged Hans Wegner style coffee tables, tas oak all rounded over, 12mm top slides into slot routed on inside.

    I've done a half lap instead of a mortise and tenon on the legs, much faster for me, will this be okay in the long term? or should I use and m&t?

    http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/IMG_2287.jpg
    http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h1...e/IMG_2290.jpg

    Grateful for advice before I continue, Heath
    god is in the details

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  3. #2
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    Default

    Don't want to do them again I'd imagine. Looks ok to me.

  4. #3
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    Looks nice and should hold up well.

    Rgds

    Ross
    Ross
    "All government in essence," says Emerson, "is tyranny." It matters not whether it is government by divine right or majority rule. In every instance its aim is the absolute subordination of the individual.

  5. #4
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    looks great to me.

    www.carlweiss.com.au
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  6. #5
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    I would consider a bridle joint.
    Jim
    Sometimes in the daily challenges that life gives us, we miss what is really important...

  7. #6
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    Heath

    canvass some more opinions but you could strengthen the joint by
    1) driving some shorts screws in from the inside (under the top where they'll be out of sight
    2) using decoratve pins through the jont — ones with square pyramid ends would look nice
    3) glue a block on the inside of the joint (along the rail) so that in effect you get a built up mortise


    ian

  8. #7
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    I would probably have done a housed lap joint so it didn't show through at the top, but from the pictures the quality of your work is superb - so good to show the joint off!

    A bridle joint would have looked fine too, but if you didn't want to go to the complexity of a mortise and tenon then bridle would definitely not be the go - and as apricotripper said I doubt you want to redo the joint anyway.

    I would leave it as is as those joints are unlikely to move - if you need to tighten at some later time you can glue and block or use some other hidden fixing then.

    In the meantime that is a nice piece of work and you should just finish it and be proud of a job well done.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoopy View Post

    I've done a half lap instead of a mortise and tenon on the legs, much faster for me, will this be okay in the long term? or should I use and m&t?

    Grateful for advice before I continue, Heath
    Hi Heath,

    I'd personally use a blind M&T or dowel the stile into the top rail. Then the end grain wouldn't be visible on the top of the table.

    The groove you've cut in to hold the top has virtually cut the stile at the joint in half. On 19mm timber, I'd have the half lap joint about 9.5mm deep and the housing about 6mm deep, meaning that there's 2.5mm timber left behind. OK, but there's not enough racking forces on the leg to justify the extra depth.

    However, the stile is trapped by the top and it won't go anywhere - also keyed in by the groove that you've cut to hold in the top as well as the extra glued area extending to the upper edge of the top rail.

    A dowel joint is really all I'd do here. If you want to go overboard, I'd use a blind mortice and tenon.

    Cheers,

    eddie

  10. #9
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    I think there are two issues here
    1) how well the joint is made and how it looks
    2) how the joint performs

    Heath's joint looks quite well made and looks great

    However, how much of the leg's half lap thickness is left after the slot for the top is cut?
    I can't tell from the photo, but it looks not much which suggests that the exposed section of end grain from the leg is not contributing much to the joint's strength.

    I'd also be concerned somewhat by the 1/2 lap's ability to resist twisting in the leg, either from use of the table of wood movement in the leg

    as Eddie suggests an "easier" [to make] joint might be a loose M&T such as a dowel joint.


    ian

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    Dowelmax.
    Cheers,

    Bob



  12. #11
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    I think what you have done will be OK given that there's a stretcher running between pairs of legs, right?

    A bridle might have been better strength-wise to help with twisting.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

  13. #12
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    Nice looking work so far.
    In this case, your joint will be fine, it's in the middle of the rail, it's well fitted and will be very strong.
    It is weakest point is where the leg may be force inward. but this is countered by the addition of the stretcher between the legs.

    A fine choice of joint.
    Steven Thomas


  14. #13
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    thanks for all the tips, the slot that holds the top is only 3.5mm deep so for this table I think it will be okay. But ok isn't really good enough I made a mortising jig with stopping blocks which works lovely and fast.

    Perhaps on other pieces I will use the half lap as long as there is no slot cutting through.

    What sized bit would anyone suggest for cutting mortices in 19mm stock, I used a 10 mm, perhaps that is too large?

    Cheers, Heath
    god is in the details

  15. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by hoopy View Post
    What sized bit would anyone suggest for cutting mortices in 19mm stock, I used a 10 mm, perhaps that is too large?

    Cheers, Heath
    you'd probably get away with 10mm ok. but its supposed to be ruffly thirds.

    ie. about 6mm cheeks, 6mm tenon......so 6, 7 or 8 mm bit I spose. 1/4", 5/16 " maybe.

  16. #15
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    Yeah, 19mm is ~ 3/4". I would use a 1/4" bit, which also matches a 1/4" chisel.
    "I don't practice what I preach because I'm not the kind of person I'm preaching to."

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