Thread: Newbie - Alternative to table saw

I am somewhat bemused when I try to think of what would be the motivation for doing something like this. Yes, things can be done differently, but I fear for your safety and please do not let anyone in your care anywhere near that contraption. The Triton concept seems easy, but they had professional engineers design the unit for strength and safety. A bit more involved than slapping a few bits of MDF together.

First off, thank you for showing care about safety and my well being

Just wanted to know what point you would be saying that it is unsafe? If you read the post it states that the adjustable blade guard is getting built tomorrow, it has a tested and working correctly splitter and vacuum system. What part is not structurally sound in your point of view?

Im not so much saying your wrong, if you can state a flaw out to me then I will fix the problem.

Dont worry, I wouldn't let any of my loved ones near a $16000 panel saw either if they wernt trained to use one.

Originally Posted by TP1

I am somewhat bemused when I try to think of what would be the motivation for doing something like this. Yes, things can be done differently, but I fear for your safety and please do not let anyone in your care anywhere near that contraption. The Triton concept seems easy, but they had professional engineers design the unit for strength and safety. A bit more involved than slapping a few bits of MDF together.

Originally Posted by guerd87

First off, thank you for showing care about safety and my well being

Just wanted to know what point you would be saying that it is unsafe? If you read the post it states that the adjustable blade guard is getting built tomorrow, it has a tested and working correctly splitter and vacuum system. What part is not structurally sound in your point of view?

Im not so much saying your wrong, if you can state a flaw out to me then I will fix the problem.

Dont worry, I wouldn't let any of my loved ones near a $16000 panel saw either if they wernt trained to use one.

I am saying that I don't think the entire structure is strong enough to withstand sustained use and the forces that associated with table saw use. I can understand your desire to be different, but there is a reason that table saws are not made of MDF /plywood or Chipboard - that is its simply not strong, rigid or stable enough. In addition, the structure will not be able to attenuate vibration in the same manner as a proper table saw.

BTW, I was suggesting you shouldn't train any one to use your contraption

If cost is truly your motivation, then something like this will be infinitely more useful, safer and cleaner to use.

https://www.machineryhouse.com.au/Pr...stockCode=W446

Looks like an effective cutting depth of about 2" to me. But the main point is Circ Saws, especially cheap ones, are not designed to continually cut largely parallel to the wood like yours will end up doing. Unless all you cut is 6 mm MDF the load you'll be placing in that saw means you'll be burning it out pretty quickly.

Thank you for the replies.

TP1, I do understand where your coming from, and agree that it isnt as strong as a store bought table saw. At the end of the day though I will be only using this table saw to cut the parts for my CNC router build, which i expect will only be around 2 months worth and maybe only 3-4 1200x2400 sheets.

If i had of seen one of those H&F tables saws when was looking I may have purchased one as I know they do make quite good stuff. The Ryobi ones i was looking at for similar pricing had alot of play in the mitre guages, rip fences and blade shaft. The 175mm ripping capacity isnt the best either, although the next model up, 442 is a bit larger at nearly 300mm and would prob suit my needs. Trition benches were jsut to dear at $500 at my local shop

BobL, thanks for pointing that out. Hopefully it wont burn out to quick. I was afraid of maybe blowing a main bearing if pressured onto the saw to much, so i have been taking it fairly slow. Main cuts are going to be in 16mm MDF with some variations of 18mm MDF and HDPE. On this subject though, how do circ saws hold up in triton workbenches etc? Are the triton circ saws themselves designed for this or just higher quality saw - longer service life in these applications?

Again, thanks for sharing your safety concerns etc. Im pretty sure it will serve its intended purpose fine, but as ive mentioned, I will be playing it safe with guards and an E-Stop leg switch etc. Even if the machine is to only be used for a few months of light work.

If this circular saw does die within this time frame then i guess I will be buying a proper table saw.

Originally Posted by guerd87

Thank you for the replies.

Trition benches were jsut to dear at $500 at my local shop

The Chinese and Taiwanese manufacturers have redefined the value equation in woodworking. At some point, the Triton approach may have been a cheaper alternative to a dedicated table saw.

Depends on the circular saw your using. Tritons have been used to cut timber for years on end without buring out saws. Also I find it hard to believe that mdf is less stiff or less able to "attenuate vibration" than sheet steel, which some cheap table saws are made of..

I used my triton mk3 with no guards and my old B&D 9" saw for years to make all sorts of things.

Having said that the work to build that mdf table is signifigant. Then again I wouldn't be buying that H&F pos either.

Your origional question was about cutting up mdf sheets. My question now is what is the purpose of your mdf tablesaw ? because the use dictates the solution.

I still reckon you'd be better off with a rail system unless your doing really small stuff.

Seriously? It is not just a question of MDF vs Sheet metal. The all metal saws have a steel frame and an MDF one has the design limitations of a cardboard box. Putting MDF on a Triton top is not the same as a Triton being fully fabricated from MDF.

The H&F saw may be a POS in some eyes but there is a reason it is legally able to be sold as a saw.

Originally Posted by damian

Your origional question was about cutting up mdf sheets. My question now is what is the purpose of your mdf tablesaw ? because the use dictates the solution.

I still reckon you'd be better off with a rail system unless your doing really small stuff.

I originally said that i needed to cut MDF sheets for the CNC router yes.

Rail saws were mentioned, along with real table saws

I cant justify spending $500 minimum on something to meet my needs only to use it to cut up around 4 fullsize sheets of MDF

Even my circulal saw + a level would have been ok for the big stuff, although i do need to cut up some smaller stuff aorund the 100 x 100 mark which is just to hard with circular saw.

I dont quite get your question though, my MDF tablesaw is still going to be used to cut mentioned MDF? I never said i was going to try and rip up hardwood sleepers through it.

I bought the table top and most pieces from the precut range at bunnings so i didnt need to precut anything for it.

You don't need to spend that much money on a saw rail/guide system. You can use your own saw in a DIY setup like this:


https://www.woodworkforums.com/f13/ci...w-guide-88621/

Alternatively, you can buy ready made setups to fit any saw such as this:

Catalogue - Sawing - Power Tool Guides.

Carbatec have one too which I couldn't readily find when I just looked then.

Yeah even my 8' progrip was only about $140, and you almost certainly DON'T need one that long. a 4' rail will do 90% of your panel work, or if you like a stiff straight edge and a couple of clamps.

The question about purpose isn't about timber hardness. As I said above I've not burned out circular saws using them fixed. The point is you need a different tool for scroll work to ripping logs. Buy or make a saw that does the work you have for it.

TP1: Have you ever owned a triton ? the tops flex. It's quite hard to get really precise work out of them. And the other cheap table saw at H&F is flimsier again. Fairly thick MDF is quite stiff and if you build it as a solid box it's quite strong enough. Obviously if you use 9 mm chipboard or something it'll be useless. It looks like he's used 5/8 or thicker and doubled it up for stiffness, braced the bottom and the chest of drawers will add to it also. I really think the box is quite well made and thought out. I wouldn't build that of course, and given the many good tablesaws that come up on ebay for trivial $, and the many other options out there I don't see why he's built that, but I don't know all his circumstances and so who am I to judge ?

The carbatec one is progrip. I bought my rail from them.

Thanks for the comments. The top is made of 16mm MDF that is bolted to the top of the table which is also 16mm MDF. The cirular part is mainly only 1 thickness so i didnt loose too much depth of my blade but it it braced by the table top MDF.

Side panels of the cupboard have been braced with the 16mm MDF again, screwed and glued on 1 side and removable on the other.

The chest of drawers themselves are actually quite strong and wernt a bad find. The whole unit is quite sturdy and heavy now. It doesnt rack or wobble one bit and requires 2 people to move it without dragging the bottom around on the floor.

Check the table saw thread, added some updated pics.

John

Originally Posted by damian

Yeah even my 8' progrip was only about $140, and you almost certainly DON'T need one that long. a 4' rail will do 90% of your panel work, or if you like a stiff straight edge and a couple of clamps.

The question about purpose isn't about timber hardness. As I said above I've not burned out circular saws using them fixed. The point is you need a different tool for scroll work to ripping logs. Buy or make a saw that does the work you have for it.

TP1: Have you ever owned a triton ? the tops flex. It's quite hard to get really precise work out of them. And the other cheap table saw at H&F is flimsier again. Fairly thick MDF is quite stiff and if you build it as a solid box it's quite strong enough. Obviously if you use 9 mm chipboard or something it'll be useless. It looks like he's used 5/8 or thicker and doubled it up for stiffness, braced the bottom and the chest of drawers will add to it also. I really think the box is quite well made and thought out. I wouldn't build that of course, and given the many good tablesaws that come up on ebay for trivial $, and the many other options out there I don't see why he's built that, but I don't know all his circumstances and so who am I to judge ?

The carbatec one is progrip. I bought my rail from them.

Love ya work guerd87!

I'm guessing that you've worked in/on and around table saws before to have the confidence to come up with a home built table as good as that and would know the dangers associated with using any saw. I say go for it!! Do it while this 'free' country is still free enough for a bloke to go into his garage or shed, mind his own business and make what ever he wants!!! (. . . and then open himself up to critisicm on a forum)

With regards to the life of the the saw, my 9 and 1/4" Makita has had a fairly busy life screwed to a bit of chipboard, upside down for about 20years now so I wouldn't be too worried about shortening the life of your saw. Your saw will more than pay for itself after a few projects and can then die whenever it wants.

I reckon freehand power saws have a harder life anyway because they get bogged down and jambed in timber more often than a table saw does - IMHO

Yeehaa!!

Originally Posted by damian

Yeah even my 8' progrip was only about $140, and you almost certainly DON'T need one that long. a 4' rail will do 90% of your panel work, or if you like a stiff straight edge and a couple of clamps.

The question about purpose isn't about timber hardness. As I said above I've not burned out circular saws using them fixed. The point is you need a different tool for scroll work to ripping logs. Buy or make a saw that does the work you have for it.

TP1: Have you ever owned a triton ? the tops flex. It's quite hard to get really precise work out of them. And the other cheap table saw at H&F is flimsier again. Fairly thick MDF is quite stiff and if you build it as a solid box it's quite strong enough. Obviously if you use 9 mm chipboard or something it'll be useless. It looks like he's used 5/8 or thicker and doubled it up for stiffness, braced the bottom and the chest of drawers will add to it also. I really think the box is quite well made and thought out. I wouldn't build that of course, and given the many good tablesaws that come up on ebay for trivial $, and the many other options out there I don't see why he's built that, but I don't know all his circumstances and so who am I to judge ?

The carbatec one is progrip. I bought my rail from them.

I am still surprised that we are having a serious discussion about using MDF as a construction material for a potentially dangerous piece of machinery. The point is not just how flat and rigid the top can be but issues such as the torsional strength of the frame, strength of the joints and the ability for the frame to withstand all manner of forces from all directions. Being reinforced with a chest of drawers as its primary feature I'm afraid doesn't quite qualify as a safety feature. As I said before there is a reason that you cannot buy a table saw anywhere on the the planet constructed from MDF. The fact that someone has thankfully not been seriously injured as a result of such construction without the benefit of any type of qualified engineering input, does not mean it is to be sanctioned as an example for others to follow.

In answer to your question, no I haven't used a Triton simply because I couldn't get comfortable with the concept of the Triton platform, particuarly at the asking prices. However, they have clearly been engineered to a reasonable standard given their longevity and the number of satisfied customers.