Thread: Planing Paulownia

Probably a plane, to get it flat, and if the grain splinters/lifts, you're probably better off hand sanding with the grain. It seems like it would'nt take a lot of sanding.

Filo pine is similar, to get any sort of finish you need to have incredibly sharp tools then when you think its all going well you get the mother of all tear outs and it never gets realy smooth.

In ancient times when good steel was rare and carbide wasn't even a dream a soft easily worked timber with no feature was probably considered great.

most of thet chineese stuff was lauered anyway.

I'd say seal and sand is your only hope.

The only commercial use I have seen for polonia is core in a block board type ply.

In that is great, half the weight of luan and much more rigid.
cheers

Originally Posted by derekcohen

It sure does not present like a hardwood. It is as light as Balsa.

Actually, despite being very soft, balsa is classified as a hardwood, the softest commercial hardwood.

Wikipedia:

"The term hardwood designates wood from broad-leaved (mostly deciduous, but not necessarily, in the case of tropical trees) or angiosperm trees. Hardwood contrasts with softwood, which comes from conifer trees. On average, hardwood is of higher density and hardness than softwood, but there is considerable variation in actual wood hardness in both groups, with a large amount of overlap; some hardwoods (e.g. balsa) are softer than most softwoods, while yew is an example of a hard softwood."

For more details go to; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardwood

Derek

Perhaps you could re-post in the boatbuilding fora - paulownia is currently being talked of as a good replacement for WRC in, for example, strip building canoes and kayaks - the guys who have done this (eg the thread below) may have some experiences to retail on smoothing this wood.

There has been an interesting thread on building a canoe using strips of paulownia recently:
http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...ad.php?t=36091

Posts #73, 74 and 76 include some relevant material - it seems that ranmps (the builder of the canoe) used a LN LA block plane and reported no difficulties, but he did finish by using a ROS, so you may well need to finish with a sander too.

Alternatively, how does your suff respond to a handheld scraper? When I used to make model aieroplanes, I found that works well with large sheets of balsa and, unlike sanding, doesn't compact the grain.

Best of luck

Jeremy

How does it plane across the grain Derek?

Originally Posted by soundman

The only commercial use I have seen for polonia is core in a block board type ply.

Shutters, wall panelling are uses, it's light and doesn't succumb to the normal rot issues.

Used it a little in our cadet (sailing dinghy) and was really nice to work with.

I can't say i needed to plane it but end grain work with a chisel is a breeze.

Check in on the boat building forum, maybe boatmik could help.

Regards
Andrew

Actually the Chinese had Ultra-high carbon steel for tools & weapons - it was called 'Irrigated Iron' and was made by the same method that was used in India for making Wootz - wrought iron was case hardened by being placed in a sealed crucible with cast iron, then heated till the cast iron melted & held there for a day or so until the carbon had migrated throughout. PITA to work though - you have to work it at less than a red heat or it crumbles (extreme red short). Steel in the same carbon range is used for the compressor blades in some high performance gas turbine aircraft engines.

If you really want to plane/scrape it, try broken glass. Really stone age & much sharper than any steel When it gets blunt, either chuck it & pick up another piece (carefully) or break a new edge.

I have a feeling that the traditional craftsmen may have used some form of surface burnisher. If you want to get some ideas, try to find a ponsy gallery selling 'Antique' Japanese chests (tansu) & take your camera & a magnifying glass.

I dunno.

Ask the guy in this video.

http://www.tansu.com/wako/Video/wmv/1090-037s.wmv

Download it and watch. 3.5M.

All the wood is paulownia, and they don't seem to be having any trouble planing the stuff. Might make you feel a bit sick Derek, so be forewarned.

Also, I wonder is something might be amiss here, since I find that kiri, sorry, paulownia is actually quite hard, considering what it feels like. Akin to poplar, but possibly harder.


For the rest of you, watch the rest of the videos from that site.

The original page is...

http://www.tansu.com/wako/Video/v-index.htm


BTW, just checked most of the cabinets here that we bought, all look planed, not sanded and completely unfinished. Just like in the videos.


(I reckon I could plane the stuff, but I would be using a sister plane to the ones in the videos. )

Schtoo

Thanks for that. The timber I have acts nothing like that. It is also not hard - it is soft, not as soft as balsa, but still much softer than pine.

I tried to pare the end grain with a really sharp chisel. It just crumbled.

I think it will make firewood not furniture.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Well, there is some stuff here they give a strange name to, that looks similar to kiri (shorter to type than your name!) save for large ray flecks, extremely light and very soft. I think it's rubberwood, but they call it 'filecutter', direct translation.

It's very much like balsa, and I wonder wether it's some kind of kiri too.

Don't forget, they also make sandals out of the stuff here, of which I have a pair, and they are, without a doubt, made of kiri. They work well, in an archaic way. Anything softer than pine wouldn't last out the front door of the cobbler, so I think that what you have is either not 'kiri' or it is 'kiri' but from a different branch of the family.

Bedtime for me, but I'll see what I can dig up tomorrow, so don't torch it just yet.

It is also, apparently, used as a base for building surf boards.

I would just put it all through a sander Derek. Not everything HAS to be finished darkside.

Originally Posted by Schtoo

Well, there is some stuff here they give a strange name to, that looks similar to kiri (shorter to type than your name!) save for large ray flecks, extremely light and very soft. I think it's rubberwood, but they call it 'filecutter', direct translation.

Kiri and Paulownia are one and the same, and as Schtoo pointed out, it's actually a fine cabinet timber, instrument timber and lots of other things.

The slower it grows, the harder it becomes, and I recall being told some time ago (although I haven't checked) that early harvested timber (less than about 8 years) is a lot softer than older growth (12 years plus).

There's a lot of it being planted in Aus at the moment, but much of it is in sub-tropical areas which promote rapid growth, suitable for pulp and core materials.

It does get marked grain pattern, but this comes from areas where there are short, severe fluctuations in temperatures. I have read that a couple of districts in Japan produce the best stuff.... no mention of Perth sadly!

So don't give up on Paulownia, just find some better quality Kiri next time!

Cheers,

P

Ok, just quickly.

Says that the stuff I mentioned 'filecutter' is a kind of rubberwood, 'A falcataria', hence the strange name here.

It also mentions that in some places, this stuff is called Paulownia, since it also grows fast and is light. Possibly distantly related, but I am not sure.


What's the specific gravity of it? Good Kiri is about 0.65, this junk stuff is closer to 0.4.

I think that if your 'kiri' is below 0.5, its becoming unworkable/is not kiri.


In addendum.

I have a great bunch of links, one in particular that has bailed me out numerous times on Japanese and Asian timbers. Not heavily detailed and no English, but it gives an idea of what is what, often a botanical name and babelfish can assist with you non-Nihingo speakers.

Case in point, this one. Looked up kiri, then the falcataria which noted the relationship and possible confusion between the two. Maybe not all that useful to you guys, but I can put up some links if you are interested.

Midge, I agree that it does make a great cabinet wood since it is quite obviously hard enough to take joint cutting without too much collateral damage, is light yet very strong and looks nice enough. Also seems to be very stable, which is very important here. Maybe not a good outer surface wood, but most cabinets are are carcassed in kiri, with something harder on the outside/veneer. We have solid ash/kiri, oak veneer/kiri, yelow pine/kiri and hard finished kiri pieces here, and they all give great service.

I'd like to be able to get some to give it a try, but it's not all that easy to find, since most cabinet shops here grab it first.

It's not all bad, means I have to use other woods, like cherry and oak.

Would also like to give the local cypress (Hinoki) a try one day, since it supposed to be a 'perfect' furniture wood in strength, hardness and stability. Also looks great too.
Might have to temporarily lift my 'no softwoods' ban for that stuff.