Thread: Quality vs Budget powertools

Looking back at the three tools shown here (and another twenty or so not shown) they are all between twenty and thirty years old.

Considering the following-
* They have all had a hard life, (tell me about it).
* None have been particularly well looked after, (although they have not been abused by pushing them when dull etc).
* They have fell off scaffolds and been left out in the rain.
* They are all doing exactly the same job that they were bought for, regularly sometimes for days on end with very little downtime.
* They fall into medium to high trade quality price range.
They were all RIDICULOUSLY cheap to buy.

Tools like thes don't COST money. They MAKE money


Cheers
Bill

I remember something Les Miller used to say at woodworking shows about router bits. He would tell people getting into routing to buy themselves one of the "cheap" router sets initially. You'll work out pretty quickly which bits you use often, and which bits you use occasionally. Over time replace the often used bits with quality/expensive bits so they will last. I figure that power tools are that cheap these days, you can afford to apply the same principle. Especiaally when you consider how prohibitive it can be trying to fit out a workshop with top end stuff straight up. One thing i would add tho and it's already been said is when you want accurate detail you pay for it. If this isn't so important at the moment, move into it slowly dollar wise.

Bob K

I would like to add a question to this. Which of the following brands are clasified as cheap or Quality.

1. Bosh
2. Black and Decker
3. Makita
4. Skill (Dont know if this is a South African make)
5. Dewalt


Regards

Bloubull

Dont just go for brand.Both bosch and makita have there low range items.Eg makita make tools that look much the same between models but are hundreds of dollars difference.It is the dearer model that is trade oriented .Like trying to use bosch green day after day.It just wont last the distance.

Originally Posted by Bloubull

I would like to add a question to this. Which of the following brands are clasified as cheap or Quality.

1. Bosh
2. Black and Decker
3. Makita
4. Skill (Dont know if this is a South African make)
5. Dewalt


Regards

Bloubull

As mentioned by Tommy, many brands have different grades of tools. Bosch blue is considered very high quality, green for lighter DIY work. Of your list, B&D used to be great but are now the dregs, real tossers. Skil (with one "l") make some decent circular saws but mostly cr*p. Makita have a good reputation, as does DeWalt. DeWalt is what I would term mid-grade tools and typically worth having.

It also depends on which tool you are talking about. Like most producers, toolmakers get some more right than others. Bosch blue jigsaws are the bee's knees--comparable to Festool and cheaper. Hilti makes great circular saws, as does Porter-Cable.

You'll be right if you stick with the better brands and shop carefully. And, you can always ask here if you're not sure. (Okay, or do a search. )

Fatty500, like most have said already, the more expensive tools are better.
Full stop.

So it is a matter of money.
If money is no objection, buy all Festo.

Otherwise, you have to buy cheaper or ... second hand.
I built a large collection of power tools, bought at various cash converters, auctions, flea market and taken all without exception to a trusty repairer, to test, and to change brushes bearings and grease + whatever part is needed.
From several dozen powertools and airtools bought in this way, only one has ever failed me and burnt the armature and this because I did not take it to test before I used it.
When I buy second hand I only buy the best brand, never ever budget second hand, and always one step bigger than I would buy if new.
Some good brands of electric power tools are
Festo, Metabo, Milwaukee, Panasonic, Hitachi, Makita, Bosh blue line, DeeWalt, Ryobi blue line, in (my own) descending order of preference.
Air tools and petrol driven tools are a different chapter.

wise words, thanks guys.

I'm a mad keen fisherman, and with fishing reels, one that costs $150 will perform day-in, day-out, without fail if you look after it. A $700 model will do just the same, and adds little in terms of features or reliability, except being a little smoother. (I wouldn't touch a Kmart cheapie)
Is there a point where there are diminishing returns for your money? And does buying known brands, really insulate you from getting a dud machine?

I guess I'll stick to middle of the range gear, at least until I know what I'm doing.

Originally Posted by fatty500

Is there a point where there are diminishing returns for your money? And does buying known brands, really insulate you from getting a dud machine?

Yes, if you are only using them as a hobbyist or in the shed. No matter what is said here, only you can decide how important a purchase it is to you, and thus spend accordingly.
No, unfortunately Murphy "services" all levels, and you could get a bad tool no matter how much you pay. But the higher price of some tools does buy you better insurance by way of a higher body of quality products, support from the company, a warranty, replacement, service/repair, etc.
If you're buying new and you're not just getting everything at Bun's, take the time to pick a tool dealer that is convenient to your location and carries a range of things you want, and establish a relationship. If you're buying a lot of stuff, sometimes you can get a bit of a discount.

what do you want to use your tools for?
how much use?
what tools in particular?
and what are your priorities?

Its no surprise that the majority of people here are saying buy the best, this is a woodwork forum- not many people are going to stand up and say budget tools are good enough or better value,
and if you have the money to throw at a top of the range tool collection then go for it, or if you are looking at this as the time to invest into tools that you wanto keep and look after for a long time... like that top of the range fishing reel, they are better, stronger, and more pleasurable to use... how much use you get from it, and what sort of use, will determine whether the extra money (arguably disproportionate or not) is well spent or not.
IMHO it really depends on your situation.


I think Damien gave some great advice, and it is also a sentiment that I try to follow- for high revving tools (that have a potential to really hurt you if they fail) buying cheapo's is probably not the best idea.
For some of the other things, cheapos can be more than satisfactory, and leave you plenty of money for your other needs (ie for me, for my boat and other projects I use my tools on)- or as I have experienced, they can be a total waste of money and time.
If day in, day out I was going to be using these tools primarily for my income, then I would buy the best (performing)- as I do for paint brushes, rollers, paint, etc...
Alternatively, when working on my boat or a project at home, time is not really money, money is money and my projects and boat need money, so if a little more time and effort on my part (which I completely enjoy anyway) using a considerably cheaper tool will save me money that I can then use for other things, then that better suits my priorities.
But as you can tell, for me, money IS an issue, so I have to make these compromises.

For buying cheap, I reckon its worth getting something that will have a replacement warranty- GMC used to be good for this- just take it back to bunnies and get a new one if it dies (some seem to die at the slightest use (bad castings? I don't know)/ some keep going and going in spite of hard treatment). Now that you have to deal directly with GMC (and having gone through the suffering and time waste of that experience) I will be very hesitant to buy GMC again.
So, for my cheapie disposable tool purchases, that is going to be my next priority- If Ozito are replacement at bunnings (which I am not sure of), then I will get that. I like to have a few basic tools, that I can use hard, mistreat, and not worry about (getting stolen, salt spray, etc).
If I can't find a cheapo tool that will be replaced on the spot, then because of my experiences, I will have to bite the bullet and get something a lot better. The stuff around is not worth it IMO.

The other good bit of advice I have heard here- and I have followed it with my lathe chisels as well- is that it can be good to get a cheap range to begin with to see what tools you need/use the most. When something wears out, or you grow unsatisfied with the use of one, then it may be time to upgrade to a higher quality one. In the mean time, if a largely unused cheap tool sits on your shelf for a few years gathering dust (rather than making it) then you have not broken your bank for nothing.

For instance, though I love having some cheap power/hammer drills that i wouldn't do without for working out on the water, I use mine so much for everyday things, that for precision work I am wanting a really nice one as well.

Lastly, some of the midrange tools, such as the cheaper Makita range- I have found to be only as good, or sometimes worse than, the real cheapies.

good luck.

Hi,
While not related directly to the discussion, I'd like to reiterate Eli's comments regarding developing a relationship with a dealer you like. This has several advantages.
1. You and the dealer understand each other, therefore you're more likely to get recommendations appropriate to your situation.
2. You help keep a local small business operational and profitable.
3. As Eli says, you're more likely to get a discount where possible.

I also find that people in Hardware stores and timber yards are very appreciative of seeing what you have made with the stuff you bought. They love the feedback and it gives them some measure of satisfaction and enthusiasm for what they do, which they pass on to other customers. So everyone benefits.

Regards,

Rob

Originally Posted by hansp77

Lastly, some of the midrange tools, such as the cheaper Makita range- I have found to be only as good, or sometimes worse than, the real cheapies.

I would be interested to know where these tools from Makita were made. All of the Makita machines I have state 'Made in Japan' and I haven't had any problems. I have however, worked with Makita 'Made in England' and 'Made in the USA' which didn't quite make the same solid impression unfortunately...

Hey Damien,
next I work with my mate (whose tools they were) I will try to have a look (if he still has them).
The worst one was a power/hammer drill. I honestly wouldn't swap it for my beaten up soon-to-be had-it GMC. Just a pain to use.

Aside from the cheaper range, I love Makita- for me, they're the bees knees- about as good as I buy.

All tools are like buying into a lottery. With cheap tools the odds are stacked in the manufacturers favour that it will last the life of the warranty and then you'll have to buy another. With quality tools the odds are stacked in your favour. But like all things in life you can occasionally find a cheap individual tool that does not meet these odds. I have a $39 Ozito angle grinder that I bought for a small job that has since been given a beating but it seems to survive everything I throw at it. On the other hand the cheap biscuit cutter I bought barely survived the warranty period. There is no way of course of knowing this when you pick up a cheap individual tool in a shop.

The oldest power tools in my shed are all reasonable quality (Makitas) and now that I've started to do more work I've been bending towards the quality side but occasionally I will still buy a cheapie if I figure I will not use it much (eg large hammer drill).

Originally Posted by damienhazo

As a rule, I would advise against buying any cheap high reving tools. These include:

• Saws
• Routers
• Planers
• Angle grinders
• Bickie Jointers

In general, low revings tools don't pose as much danger should they fail. These include tools such as:

• Orbital/belt sanders
• Battery drills
• Jigsaws
• Rotary hammers

I pretty much agree with Damien here - some types of tools are best kept expensive - other types will do the job cheap.
I tend to agree with his list, with some exceptions:
Keep expensive:

• Circular Saw: for reasons of precision. I once bought a cheap 5" CS to use exclusively to rough cut 4x8 panels prior to finishing. When using it with a guide, because the baseplate was not parallel to the blade, it would bind. It would also bind because of the weak motor. I'm never buying a cheap CS again.
• Router: for reasons of vibration and accuracy. My cheapo GMC router vibrates so much, when it's in the table, it reverberates like I've got a 2-stroke in it. It was good as a beginners Router, but not the best choice.
• Planers: don't use em, can't comment
• Biscuit Machine: mainly for the precision of the fence mechanism. If you look at the fence on a Ryobi/GMC BM, it is just awful pressed metal. (having said that, I actually own an Aldi BM (don't laugh) which actually has a decent fence, so I guess I am lucky a cheapo does the job in this case).
• Battery Drill: I find that my Makita drill is just so superior to my no-name spare that it is amazing. It's a combination of the variable trigger, electric brake, and solid gearbox. Where I have great control with the Makita, the no-name only has "on" and "off".

OK Cheap:

• Angle Grinders: my GMC grinder is fine. If I thought it was unsafe I wouldn't use, and GMC would probably be not be allowed to sell.
• Mitre Saw: if you can live with the minor inaccuracies, then cheap does the job. (Not suitable for picture frames!)
• RO Sanders: so long as they have a vacuum exhaust you can use.

I could do a longer list, but this is just my opinion.

And BTW Damian, both my Makita drills say made in China. I've just had to replace the motor on the 4yo drill.

John.