Thread: How to quote a framing job?

I believe there are computer programs that can assist otherwise it it pretty much the same as a granny flat only bigger, or you could just higher a quantity surveyor,

Do you have a copy of the light framing code AS1684?
Do you have a copy of the 2017 NCC Vol 2 ?
Do you know what loads will be on the roof (Metal/tile/solar panels/solar HWS)
Do you know if there will be a water bed in any of the bed rooms?
What floor coverings up stairs?
Is it clad or BV?
What wind category?
Is it on a slab or B&J?
Do you have a propriety software program for calculating member sizes?
Are you a licensed contractor?
Are you also erecting or just supplying?
Are you providing the relevant scaffolding to erect?
Who is buying the material, you or the client?

Don't take this the wrong way but I suggest you need to think very carefully about this. There is a whole world of difference doing double storey as opposed to granny flats. There is no quick easy way that uses experience and knowledge in any of the software packages. These packages are only 1 part of the equation to estimate it. Architects have a habit of drawing pretty pictures but the practical execution is a whole different ball game.

Send me a PM if you want to talk it over, only too willing to help you.

Have you got a full set of plans ? A structural engineers plans should list all the beams, the wind category and slab/floor framing details.

Not necessarily, if it is a non standard conventional design then the client/architect may have commissioned an engineers specification but if it is a standard conventional domestic design, it will possibly only include the engineers design for a slab (and if it is B&J then the footings design) and maybe 1 or 2 steel beams/columns at the most.

One question I omitted, have the plans been approved by the local council and a construction certificate issued?

Originally Posted by Sam

Have you got a full set of plans ? A structural engineers plans should list all the beams, the wind category and slab/floor framing details.

Only if they have been calculated by a frame and truss manufacturer

Be careful here. It sounds as though your experience is somewhat lacking. The list of questions R.W. has raised all require answers and the right answers before you tackle this one. Two storey framing requires significant changes to the lower storey, which can be a trap for young players.
May I suggest you take the plans to a truss and frame manufacturer and obtain a quote and spec from them. This will take an experienced quantity surveyor only a few minutes to work out, where as you could be scratching your head for hours and still come up with the wrong answers.

Not too many double storey houses getting around built straight from as1684 without an engineer is there ? The building surveyor wouldn't risk that ?

The truss guys don't set the loads for engineers.

Originally Posted by Sam

Not too many double storey houses getting around built straight from as1684 without an engineer is there ? The building surveyor wouldn't risk that ?

The truss guys don't set the loads for engineers.

The software that the T&F manufactures use is either Pryda or Multinail which are the predominant programs used in Australia. The load parameters are entered and the engineering calculations in the program then specifies and designs the trusses accordingly complete with reaction reports and certification for lodging with the council or private certifier. The only time an engineer gets involved is when the design falls outside the parameters of the software.

The truss guys don't set the loads for engineers
The truss manufacturer inputs the loads and the software/engineer designs according to the loads.

I use a propriety program for specifying member sizes in frames and conventional cut roofs (not trusses) and if I get a situation where the design is outside of the software parameters I contact their in-house engineer who then calculates the particular design for that project.

Another factor to take consideration of is the requirement to specify the type and location of the bracing units in both walls and roof together with the anchor system to be used COMPLETE with the calculated forces and importance category (failure classification) for the project.

Originally Posted by JOS106

Hi

I am recently came out as a Carpenter, ive done conventional framing with the last builder but has never quoted a big framing job before. With a small job like a granny flats, its alot easier to work out the studs/beams and there's less walls to calculated.

But with double story, there are too many walls, ceilings, beams. I want to know is there a quicker more accurate way to work out a quote?

Thanks

Ray (rwbuild) has provided an excellent answer.

but in terms of a "quicker more accurate way to work out a quote" sourcing pre-assembled the wall frames has got to be "quicker" and "more accurate" as you are then mostly only estimating our labour -- plus possibly a crane to move the pieces.

SO SORRY Guys and girls................ i got my first job after coming out as a contractor and was busy every night trying to work out what needs to be done tomorrow for me and a labourer. its a not a big job just a small one but involves everything from framing, blueboardig, gyprocking, painting, fix out, water proofing etc almost everything except plumbing wiring and tiling and rendering.

Answers to rwbuild as as follows:

Originally Posted by rwbuild

Do you have a copy of the light framing code AS1684?
Not hard copy but in pdf fomat
Do you have a copy of the 2017 NCC Vol 2 ?
Same as above and Vol 1, c'mon nothing is hard copy ;-)
Do you know what loads will be on the roof (Metal/tile/solar panels/solar HWS)
Tile, solar HWS not sure about other panels
Do you know if there will be a water bed in any of the bed rooms?
no, just cheap chinese mattress that memories your body shape
What floor coverings up stairs?
I would assumed its timber and carpet bedrooms.
Is it clad or BV?
its all Brick Veneer top and bottom
What wind category?
its in Sydney NSW so it ll be either N1 max N2
Is it on a slab or B&J?
Slab, its a double story brick veneer
Do you have a propriety software program for calculating member sizes?
Nope, never used them before, only work out by the AS1684 tables
Are you a licensed contractor?
Yes, newbie and a goodie
Are you also erecting or just supplying?
Quote is for supply and erect
Are you providing the relevant scaffolding to erect?
No
Who is buying the material, you or the client?
Me, it ll be easier if i wasnt, but a baby birds needs to flap its wings eventually

Don't take this the wrong way but I suggest you need to think very carefully about this. There is a whole world of difference doing double storey as opposed to granny flats. There is no quick easy way that uses experience and knowledge in any of the software packages. These packages are only 1 part of the equation to estimate it. Architects have a habit of drawing pretty pictures but the practical execution is a whole different ball game.

Send me a PM if you want to talk it over, only too willing to help you.

Hi rwbuild

Thanks for the thought guys, i honestly dont really want to mess with double story conventional on my own. but a friend of mine send me the plans, it looks straight forward, nothing fancy. Thats why i wanted to get some pointers from the experience guys on this site if theres easier way. I can spend too long counting the beams and timber and the client might not even go ahead with it.

As i am coming out on my own, i have to look at all channels that i could make money instead of concentrating in one area. I have experience in double story straight built but have never quoted a job. I dont even know the layout of the timber order sheet.
I am qualify Carpenter with CERT IV in Building and Constructions. I was with a builder for many years, but for those reasons, i wasnt erecting timber frame everything 2nd week. We were doing complete built from A-Z.

Maybe if i have a partner then i might consider it. But in the mean time, i think i stick to granny flats... it compact, easier and quicker

I would say you have made the right decision.
Just for your own benefit long term, have a go at estimating it (material and labour only to assemble excluding erection) just for the exercise then get a F&T company to quote supply. I know there will be a difference in their buying power as opposed to yours but it will give you an idea.

Contact Tillings and get a licensed copy of Smartframe but make sure you do their training for it, its invaluable and covers you for certification.

Originally Posted by JOS106

SO SORRY Guys and girls................ i got my first job after coming out as a contractor and was busy every night trying to work out what needs to be done tomorrow for me and a labourer. its a not a big job just a small one but involves everything from framing, blueboardig, gyprocking, painting, fix out, water proofing etc almost everything except plumbing wiring and tiling and rendering.

congratulations.

I know you are a "baby bird just learning to flap its wings", but at some point your nights spent planning the next day's work or estimating the next job needs to be reflected in what you charge for the job.

Regarding waterproofing (it tops out at 95% of all HOW rectifications and complaints) if the product you use says 2 coats, DO 3. You will never have a complaint and lay it on thick, an extra $100 or so spent will save you 1000's in the long run and don't forget to seal around all tap handles etc BEFORE the dress rims are fitted

thanks for the feedback guys much appreciated. i know theres lots to learn out there in the real world but i know what i learnt working alongside a builder one thing, but actually organising and managing your own time structure exciting. I n the mean time i ll just stick to what i know and try not to get ripped off and slowly ease into something more challenging, but i love conventional framing, its rewarding at the end of the day.