Thread: a real handsaw? or a disposable one

Gee Andrew,

What sort of people you been hanging around with telling you that kind of stuff, were they selling the disposable saws to you, or those power tool type user people Too much stuff now days is made to throw away, it doesnt have to be that way. If you appreciate quality woodworking tools forget the new hardpoint stuff, if you want new buy an Adria or lie Neilson or something nice like that.

Alternatively, Get yourself a good vintage Disston or aTyzack or Spear and Jackson saw with a comfortable handle and you'll never go back. Its no great drama either to sharpen or to learn how to sharpen and is much quicker than you think.

Prices will vary, a mate of mine recently got a dusty and dirty 12" Disston brass back saw with good handle for $1.50 at a local market, a bit of a clean with wet'n' dry and a sharpen and its worth $50+ dollars from any local old tool dealer. Just make sure they dont have any real kinks, they can be straightened and I do straighten the odd one or two everynow and then but its never a sure thing, they'll never be perfect again if they are too bad.

IMHO, it depends on what you're actually doing with it.

If you want a precision saw that feels good in the hand and will never leave your workshop, go for some "real steel." Start an heirloom collection.

On the other hand, for a tradie who works on site it just isn't worth it; a hard-point is cheaper, there's no faffing around wasting time sharpening it (just add the price of a replacement to your quote ) and it's no great concern if it walks off site. Ditto if you're not a tradie, but the kids (or SWMBO, or the neighbour, or...) are likely to borrow it and leave it lying around outdoors overnight...

I've a few hand-me-downs from my Grandfather's and father's sheds; a mix of rips, cross-cuts, tenons and dovetail saws, and I've no intention of replacing them with hardpoints. But I'll never, ever, ever take them on-site!

Sad to say (sorta), economics recommends disposable. About 100 years ago, before minimum wage, child labor laws and such, a kid's first task was straightening bent nails.

But it'll be a sorry day when darkside skills like saw sharpening are gone forever. It's not that hard to learn, satisfying when done, and almost necessary when shops are closed in the middle of a job.

Joe

Well, I bought a 24" Disston rip saw a little while ago, $10.

I had a cheap-o Disston cross cut at home already.

A $6 file from Bunnies got them both sharp in under an hour and the file has another sharpening left in it.

So for your $35 you have 5 files or so, meaning you can sharpen that saw 15 times, saving lots of grunting when the thing gets blunt.

(Or if you are like me, spend all of $25 and get a new Japanese saw that cuts even better, but not suitable for everything IMHO.)

Originally Posted by Schtoo

(Or if you are like me, spend all of $25 and get a new Japanese saw that cuts even better, but not suitable for everything IMHO.)

Being a recent convert to nokogiri, I couldn't help but take my brand new 12" Kataba on-site with me to show the lads what a sharp saw really is.

Of course, we were framing a 2nd story at the time, so up the ladder I go and... well, let's say that if you carry a western rip-saw and knock it against your leg while walking/climbing there's not usually any real drama, no matter how sharp it is. Sadly, it seems the same's not true of the Kataba... ruined a perfectly good pair of jeans, that day.

Andrew,
This is another of those interminable and unresolvable debates! Answers will be coloured by each respondants preferences, skills and the kind of work they regularly do. The saw you use will depend on why you're there using it.

IMO, having a really nice saw that feels comfortable and well-balanced in the hand, and makes clean, straight cuts, is a pleasure that's hard to beat - it definitely improves your work! A plastic-handled thingy with that flimsy pressed-steel back and do-all tooth profile just doesn't cut the mustard for me, but if I was a tradie and needed a rough saw, I'd certainly be using them, for all the reasons Skew mentioned.

One aspect of 'throwaway' tools is when to chuck them? When you have to get a whole new saw, the tendency is always to get 'a few more jobs' out of it, so you end up spending a lot of time fighting with a blunt tool. It takes less than 10 minutes to touch up a small saw.
Acquiring sharpening skills isn't too hard, but takes a bit of practice, and it's good to have something not too valuable to mess up on while you're getting it right. The best thing about sharpening for yourself is that you can cut tooth patterns that best suit you and the most common cuts you make - e.g., most small saws you are likely to come across are sharpened as cross-cuts, but if you cut a lot of dovetails and tenons, it's good to convert at least one to rip.

The economics are too variable to mount much of an argument either way. To a tradie, time is money, but to amateur sheddies, it's what we're there for.
Good old saws can be found dirt cheap, (except when you are desperately searching for them!), or you can pay a lot for a fancy new one. (Remember that the very expensive saw becomes much the same as a cheapie when it's dull!) Files cost a fair penny these days, too, especially when you have to drive all over hell's half-acre to get them. Try asking for a 4 inch double extra slim taper in your local harware store - the look on the face of the average attendant will say it all. And if you do want to learn to sharpen well, you DO need properly-sized SHARP files.

Cheers,

Joe

i used to get paid 7shillings and sixpence (7/6) and hour to straighten nails during summer holidays in the late 1950's.

i wonder if folks really mean a "ripsaw" when talking about a "rip" or do they mean a quarter rip?

another thing. Think of the benefit your cardiovascular system has when you use hand powered tools rather than electric power tools. Plus your lungs will thank you also because there is little to no dust from hand tools (excluding sandpaper/glasspaper/whateverpaper).

and then you could go down to the recycle place, pick up a fews saw for $5 each (including spares for handles and screws). Pick the ones you are going to refurbish and then give them the battery charger/washing soda OR treacle/molasses treatment to clean off all rust. Just think, you can have saws with a range of sets just right for the materials you are cutting AND you get the chance to test what you have only read about previously.

Originally Posted by tashammer

Joe

i used to get paid 7shillings and sixpence (7/6) and hour to straighten nails during summer holidays in the late 1950's.

tas, that's three quid a day!

You must have been a millionaire by the time you were twelve!

P

not whilst the fish and chip shop and the pictures were calling. There again the Post Office Savings book did ok. Anyway, it only lasted as long as Dad was building the riding school, plus i wasn't allowed to work a full day no matter how much i protested.

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

... ruined a perfectly good pair of jeans, that day.

Lucky you didn't break a tooth or two on the saw by stepping on it...

on the subject... has anyone got a line on where to get a saw vice for sharpening "backless" saws?? (wonder what happened to Dad's?)

Having bought one on ebay, I'd recommend making one.

what is it exactly that you are planning to do???

i last sharpened a saw in about 1978, it was a diston, thg saw clamp was made of scraps

i bought a hardpoint as a stopgap and never got round to buying a new diston

now i use 14 tpi japanese saws with throwaway blades, i have no intention of learning how to set and sharpen a japanese saw