Thread: Restoring an old table

Welcome to the forums Phildy

I'd get myself some Hide Glue (blatant advert),thendowel and glue the joints making sure to have at least one dowel into the solid timber and as well the tennon. Then using the hide glue add a couple of glue blocks behind each leg if you are a bit worried about stability or strength.

Cheers - Neil

Thanks Neil

I'll have a look at that. My main concern is the size of the table and the fact that it doesn't have any stretchers. The glued blocks sound like a plan though.

Cheers

Welcome to the forum.

Cheers Old55, I guess we are both 60 then?

It's a bit hard to know if it would work for sure without seeing photos but have a look at using loose tenons. This is effectively a way of replacing the tenons without making the skirts shorter, although presumably they will already be a bit shorter due to the saw kerf where he cut them. It would involve cutting mortises into the legs where the old tenons are glued in and also in the end of the skirts, then making up separate tenons that fit into both.

Good luck with it.

Bob

OK, like a dowel, but elongated you mean, fitting into both parts. I need to check the width of the skirt, as I don't want to leave it too fine.

Cheers

The old tenons , what remains in the leg , should be able to be taken out with a drill, a chisel , some care and some hot water . Then remake the new tenons to the ends and re fit. It shouldn't look too bad unless there is a drawer in what was the middle that shows its out of balance. Don't use metal brackets , they don't last .Glue blocks as well is a good idea. If its a nice table do whats best for it .
A picture would be nice .

You have me wondering ?? Ive seen the sort of stuff that turns up in Adelaide, and you got it off an Old Carpenter, they know nice furniture . And it has Patina, nice ageing .
AND I just scrolled up and checked the size, 9 meters long x 1.2 is that right ?

What have you got ? A gigantic extension table ?

pictures Please

Rob

Rob

Oops, my bad, 9' or about 2.75m long, my whole back yard isn't 9m!

I'll need to take photos once I move all the pieces around to the back ready for restoration.

The guy thinks it came from Hampstead Hospital in Adelaide and it has an unusual mark stamped on the skirt, looks like a "C" with an upwards arrow and some numbers. Judging by the joints and the rebated, angled, hand drilled screw holes for the top, I am guessing circa 1920-30s? I am at a loss on the timber used. The legs are quite light given their size so I suspect they are turned pine of some type. The top is definitely not pine, it is quite heavy and appears to be dark greyish-red. It is difficult to tell until I do some sanding back as it is coated in a some type of shellac coating which darkens the look. I suspect it was a mess dining table and could have been war vintage. The turned legs have some dings which I find quite nice as it shows the wear on the table over the years.

I'll post pictures as soon as I can.

To get it right, the tenons will be two-ways, into the legs after I take the old ones out, and back into the skirts?

Cheers

Originally Posted by Phildy

I'll need to take photos once I move all the pieces around to the back ready for restoration.

The top is definitely not pine, it is quite heavy and appears to be dark greyish-red. It is difficult to tell until I do some sanding back as it is coated in a some type of shellac coating which darkens the look. I suspect it was a mess dining table and could have been war vintage. The turned legs have some dings which I find quite nice as it shows the wear on the table over the years.

I'll post pictures as soon as I can.

To get it right, the tenons will be two-ways, into the legs after I take the old ones out, and back into the skirts?

Hi Philly

do you want to restore the table or remake it? -- the answer has a major bearing on what you should do with the top.

Firstly I suggest you wash the top with warm soapy water to remove as much grime as you can.
Then try and identify the finish.

If you sand the top -- a rather big task that requires some considerable finesse if you're using a belt sander -- you are effectively removing the patina and remaking the table.
Are you prepared to go to the same level of effort with the legs and aprons?

We really need to see the top, aprons and legs and know the dimensions of the components to provide you with good advice.

with care and sharp tools it's possible to fit make and new (loose) tenons to replace those sawn off without sacrificing any of the apron length

Originally Posted by Phildy

Rob

Oops, my bad, 9' or about 2.75m long, my whole back yard isn't 9m!

That's good , were still going to be Kind to you

Originally Posted by Phildy

I'll need to take photos once I move all the pieces around to the back ready for restoration.

Yeah good .

Originally Posted by Phildy

The guy thinks it came from Hampstead Hospital in Adelaide and it has an unusual mark stamped on the skirt, looks like a "C" with an upwards arrow and some numbers. Judging by the joints and the rebated, angled, hand drilled screw holes for the top, I am guessing circa 1920-30s? I am at a loss on the timber used. The legs are quite light given their size so I suspect they are turned pine of some type. The top is definitely not pine, it is quite heavy and appears to be dark greyish-red. It is difficult to tell until I do some sanding back as it is coated in a some type of shellac coating which darkens the look. I suspect it was a mess dining table and could have been war vintage. The turned legs have some dings which I find quite nice as it shows the wear on the table over the years.

Could be a Red Cedar top , and if it is, it could be an earlier table although Cedar isn't heavy , weathered it goes grey . Turned legs is up to the 1910s .
The 20s and 30s went a bit cheap and nasty not much turning , or Art Deco, flat and veneered. I'm just guessing away here based on turned legs and nice patina with the top screwed on in that way. Is the legs the same wood?

Originally Posted by Phildy

I'll post pictures as soon as I can.

That will get it sorted

Originally Posted by Phildy

To get it right, the tenons will be two-ways, into the legs after I take the old ones out, and back into the skirts?

Cheers

What I was saying would shorten the base but be strong and keep the job straight forward and reasonably simple. My bad now , I wasn't paying enough attention to your first post.
If you want to keep the length original your going to have to dowel or loose tenon like you and the others said . You'd want the original tenons that are still in the leg to be well glued in place. One of those Festo Domino tools would make it a quick job. Or use a doweling jig for dowels.

Rob

OK I took some photos last night around sunset, so they didn't come out great. But here goes.

Stamp.jpgIMG_1788.jpgIMG_1793.jpgIMG_1791.jpgIMG_1789.jpgIMG_1798.JPGIMG_1797.jpg

The first is the stamp on the end skirt, it doesn't have an upward arrow as I thought, it says 'C411' I think. Anyone have any clue what that means?
The turned legs with the cut off tenons. These legs are quite light and the timber appears to be a lighter colour than the top. On reflection, the top is actually light in colour too and the guy who sold it to me thinks it might be spruce. I don't know spruce at all, but this top is very heavy and about 1 1/4" thick.
The old school pocket holes can be seen on the aprons as well as the dove tail for the cross members.
The top is about 2.9m X 1.2m (9' X 4') and is made out of three planks. There is some separation towards the two ends and I was just going to prise open slightly and glue and sash clamp them together again.
I've also shown a photo of the church pew we'll be using for seating on one side of the table. I'm still not convinced it is from 1930, and haven't a clue as to what timber was used. It too is very heavy.

Any suggestions, ideas on its origin and materials, clues on restoration (I want a lot of patina, it needs to show its age and use), would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

I forgot to add that by the 'rough' carpentry it appears to be all hand made, so I am still guessing about 1920-30, but according to Rob, the turned legs might make it earlier.

In most ways its a Victorian table , except those horizontal lines the turner put into the leg they are taking it into the Edwardian period , so Late Victorian early Edwardian 1895 to 1905 somewhere. The moulded edge to the top would be interesting to see as well . Victorian could be a thumb mould or lambs tongue, Edwardian sometomes had a chamfer or a stepped chamfer sort of thing or a triple reed.
You did see back in those days Cedar table tops with pine legs , or all Cedar . As you spotted its all pine . The most common seen is Kauri Pine , Id say with a guess its Kauri . It was used in plenty of furniture in those times . From Adelaide you do see a lot of Huon pine , very nice, but it doesn't look to be that. kauri can have a decent weight to it .The NZ stuff was the nicest , it came from QLD as well and I think this is the lighter cheaper wood that is seen , I'm not sure of that though.

So its Aussie and 99% Kauri and a great size table but there are more important examples of furniture that you would consider restoring back to 100 % original because of their importance or quality . I'd just cut new tenons on the ends of the rails and lose 40 to 50mm off the length of the base . The table will go back to being as strong as the day it was made and its easy . Dowels, loose tenons and going into the old one still in the legs are taking away from the strength . And will take more time .

Keeping it looking good . The no 1 rule is don't sand anything, you can wash it back and re polish or wash it right off and re polish and Kauri done right comes up very nice indeed . Sand into the patina with a coarse paper and it will need a lot of work to get it looking good , sometimes its the only way and people pay to have it done, but it can be the difference between a day or two's work for me compared to a week of work.

First thing is to confirm if a later colour has been slapped on over a clear original polish job or was it stained up to be dark ? if its stained up, into the timber then you will have to put up with that unless you want to sand . if its a later colour job over the top you need mineral turps , linseed oil and Metho , steel wool and fine paper . There is a restoration section here on the forum as well . plenty of info in there . I did write a bit on a desk restoration to a guy there which you should read, it could be a similar process you need . plenty of others good restoration threads in there as well though, worth a look maybe.

This is a resto finish thread that may be of use .
Help with a partners Desk restoration project

Rob

Thanks Rob
Excellent if that vintage, matches the style of my patio area with an old Meters wood fired cast iron stove, Baltic pine kitchen dresser, etc. Not sure about the pew though, have you any clues? The lady who sold it to me says it was out of a church at Templers in SA. I am betting the church was built in 1930 and that's why she thinks the pew is 1930s. It looks a bit more modern than that to me and might be from a later fit out of the church? Not sure about the timber though, quite 'blonde' and heavy and appears to be hard as can be (something you'd expect from parishioners parking their rears on them for year after year).
I'll look at your suggested methods for taking the stuff off the wood, it seems to be some type of French polish or stain, something. Some parts look 'flat' in texture, like a stain with no lacquer, but others parts, like on the legs, have some 'bubbling' or simply effect from ageing, suggesting a lacquer of some sort.

I might look into getting the turned legs done professionally as that's a lot of hard work. I should be able to handle the skirts and, unfortunately, the old guy had already partly belt sanded the top. It still has some dings and scratches in it, I want to keep them, so I might just polish it up. How about varnish? It is going to be under polycarb roofing outside and the sun is likely to have an impact. I've used some UV urethane on old oak dining chairs and it seems to withstand the suns effects.
As for the edges of the top, quite unusual and 'industrial'. They are just a plain curve and the corners are cut at 45s with the same curved chamfer. Given this came out of a hospital (probably a dining table for the staff), it may well have been standard government issue, plain and functional. I'll see if I can get more detailed photos.

Cheers and thanks again