Thread: SCM Minimax vs Carbatec CT PS1600 panel saws

Well SCM is definitely better, but you're not gonna get a new one for anything resembling 2 grand (you might get one for $6k on a good day), even a second hand one might be out of your budget

Hi Alan

Welcome to the forum!

I have used some of carbatec's equipment previously, I have sold them all and I have moved onto Italian machines such as SCM, Griggio and Omga.

Carbatec's machine is good if that is what you can afford, it is designed for hobbiest/light use. SCM is industrial/commercial grade.

1. as far as SCM and Carbatec brands go, is one better made/supported/preferable over the other or are they pretty much the same?
SCM has its own foundry and they are 100% made in Italy, 95% made in Rimini (not far from Ferrari's factory if you are keen into racing...), I used to have a 40 year old SCM wide belt sander, there was a part I needed during a service, I was gobsmacked to learn that they still carry the part. I prefer SCM anytime over Carbatec.

Carbatec buys machinery made in Asia, you can find them on Alibaba, they give you good discount if you buy bulk. as far as support goes, you maybe able to get parts, I havnt come across the need to replace none-consumable parts, but Carbatec should be able to point you in the right direction if you need parts

2. as far as the SCM Minimax S/C2 vs. C/T CT PS1600 (both 240V), any preferences?
I will take SC2 anyday, anytime.

3. which is best-to buy a good used panel saw as descibed above or a new table/cabinet saw for same price or less (eg. Bosch GTS XC10...or similar) -for my application in a home workshop. The lack of scroll blade on a table saw can be discounted in this exercise


You want to buy a owner-operator panel saw or a panel saw that was used in a school, there is very little can go wrong with a panel saw mechanism, as long as its not abused. avoid electronic fence/blade rise/rip fence if you can, those things tends to wear out earlier than anything else, you also want to check how easy it is to replace the motor if you ever need to replace the saw motor.

I have just gone through this exercise to replace my Robland NX410 with a Griggio Unica 400. my first table saw was a Carbatec MJ2325, I had a Carbatec planer as well, I sold it when I bought my Robland NX410.

Dont limit yourself to SCM or Carbatec, there are many other variants, such as Itech/Minimax/Hammer...

Nothing out of Europe is going to be in the budget

Thanks so much for your input Albert. Those comments are very useful for this novice. As it happens I have found 2 owner operated saws which I will expalin in next post here
Alan

Thanks Elanjacobs too for your advise on brands. I hear what you are saying but I have found 3 options which I think may be worth considering-2 are SCM

1.Carbatec CT-PS1600 240V one owner hobbiest used saw. Owner passed away fairly recently. Saw looks in very good condition but belt slips a bit.
With spare blade, $2000 very firm price
2. SCM Mini 30 (as seller describes it). Is 240V. 70yr old retired workshop owner, used as small back up saw. Looks decidedly used to this novice but not stuffed! Is older model but not a Minimax according to owner. Seller says it has been "looked over" by a machine repairer mate and it is ready to go. Will sell for $2000 and maybe could squeeze another $100 off
3. SCM SC2 MiniMax, 3 phase. Hobbiest owner, very good nick, with dust extractor, $2000. Maybe I could swap out the 3 phase motor for a 240V single phase and get rewired with my electrician mate?
4. Jet JWSS 10LFR table saw for $1000, blade rise/fall not working for some reason. Looks well used but seller is desperate to let it go. I think $1000 is quite a lot too much but suspect something closer to $500 would take it

Some older panel saws too for around $1500-$2000 (eg. Invincible) but these are all 3 phase

I am thinking option 1 or 2 might be ok???
Alan

Minimax is the "budget" line from SCM, definitely worth a proper look if you have found some in your budget.

As far as I can tell, the Mini 30 is a combination machine, with a buzzer and thicknesser; handy if you want the extra things, but all combo machines are inherently a compromise so maybe not the most practical if all you want is the saw. Build quality will be on a whole other level compared to the Carbatec machine and it will probably outlast you if you look after it. Being all cast, it will also be HEAVY, so make sure you have some way of transporting it and getting it in place.

See if your sparky can come and have a look at any 3-phase machines you're serious about, it might be a simple job to convert or a right pain and it's better find that out before you commit.

thanks again Elan. Much appreciated. I plan to go and have a lokk at at least the first 3 machines-notwithstanding they are all 160km away! Its never ideal and the good well priced units seem to sell quite quick. I also noticed there seem to be more of the better makes/models, at better prices over on the east coast as opposed to our meagre west coast offerings. Thats life I guess
cheers
Alan

Not commenting on the sellers 'machinist mate' but I bought a s/h bandsaw that had been 'set up by an expert..' he may have been an expert in something but not bandsaws. He had somehow managed to align the guides so the backing bearing pressed on the side of the blade, which was as blunt as it could possibly be, and 'set the tension' so the blade could move to the back of the table slot...
Just saying be cautious about 'experts'...
And while there are traps, a vfd csn can be a great solution for 3 phase stuff.


Russ

I think option 3 is the best option. swapping out 3 phase motor and controls on a basic panel saw like SC2 is a easy task. you will need capacitors. normally this is included in the single phase motor if you tell them what is the motor going to be used for, they will give you the right motor. if you need a spec for the motor, use the following, the is the spec on my single phase motor when I swapped the motor out.

2.2 kw 2P M90 1Phase

You will need to make sure the foot of the motor is the same as the one in the SC2.

You should be able to find the user manual on SC2 on the web. in the user manual there should be the parts manual and electrical diagram. your electrician mate will need this.

Russ57 - yes, the expert line I was given had me very nervous, and still am. I hope to see this machine tomorrow as I must rule it in or out after a look see. I am aware of the vsd concept but not the specifics for this machine. I believe there can be some devils in details with these "conversions". I will certainly check it out though

Albert -yes, as the day has developed and I have fevourishly hunted down some pieces in my puzzles, option 3 with the SCM SC2 is starting to look like a real possibility. I spoke to the seller twice today and chekced out some videos of SC2 &3's on Youtube....wow, these are great machines!!! Keep in mind I am (hopefully) going from a circular saw to a pretty decent panel saw. Not too shabby when I think about it . I am hoping for a motor swap out as the motors are cheap-ish which is good. I certainly will be hunting manuals on line and will call SCM to extract more answers

I have booked a 160km trip up to Perth tomorrow to see this machine and the older 240V SCM panel saw. I will make a quick decision on the spot and hope to have a decent SCM by the end of the afternoon. It even gets better!!!... then owner of SCM SC2 + dust extractor needs it gone soon ans has told me I can have it for $1800 and has given me a "hold" on it till tomorrow. I cant ask for too much more

Thanks so much for all the contributors prompt responses. It has really helped me to fast rack my thoughts. This is a great bunch of enthusiasts!!!

cheers for now. I will update tomorrow
Alan

Originally Posted by aertex

Russ57 - yes, the expert line I was given had me very nervous, and still am. I hope to see this machine tomorrow as I must rule it in or out after a look see. I am aware of the vsd concept but not the specifics for this machine. I believe there can be some devils in details with these "conversions". I will certainly check it out though

Albert -yes, as the day has developed and I have fevourishly hunted down some pieces in my puzzles, option 3 with the SCM SC2 is starting to look like a real possibility. I spoke to the seller twice today and chekced out some videos of SC2 &3's on Youtube....wow, these are great machines!!! Keep in mind I am (hopefully) going from a circular saw to a pretty decent panel saw. Not too shabby when I think about it . I am hoping for a motor swap out as the motors are cheap-ish which is good. I certainly will be hunting manuals on line and will call SCM to extract more answers

I have booked a 160km trip up to Perth tomorrow to see this machine and the older 240V SCM panel saw. I will make a quick decision on the spot and hope to have a decent SCM by the end of the afternoon. It even gets better!!!... then owner of SCM SC2 + dust extractor needs it gone soon ans has told me I can have it for $1800 and has given me a "hold" on it till tomorrow. I cant ask for too much more

Thanks so much for all the contributors prompt responses. It has really helped me to fast rack my thoughts. This is a great bunch of enthusiasts!!!

cheers for now. I will update tomorrow
Alan

I remember when I went from a basic table saw to a full size panel saw, the feeling was absolutely sensational.

Dont settle for Carbatec/Jet if you can get a good condition SCM SC2 or SC3. the SC2 will last you at least 20-30 years if you dont abuse it.

partspronto.com may have your SC2 manual, its a free service set up by SCM I think

anything under $2000 for a second hand European panel saw is a real steal, a single phase European motor to match SC2 is going to be about $600-$700 NZD, which is about $500-$600 AUD?

Yes Albert, the SC2 machine asking price seems very right to me. I am beginning to feel that "sensational feeling" you speak of, although I am yet to have the SC2 in my grasp as of now. Shouldnt be too long I hope

I have just spoken to SCM in Sydney and Perth and they have been fantastic in terms of their interest and information they were able to provide. I have determined this SC2 is a 2002 model and has had light use. SCM even asked what the price on it is and were amazed! Joseph in Sydney said to me that in his opinion even for another $1000 it should be a good deal for a $7500 (RRP) machine. He also said most SC2's sold were single phase so this one is a little unusual....which is ironically the only negative for me at this stage. I am waiting on another call from SCM advising me of exactly what 240V motor it needs and if there are any mounting brackets or the like-they will even send me a wiring diagram. As I said their support so far is exceptional

Thanks all again. Man, am I loving this forum!
cheers
Alan

Originally Posted by aertex

Yes Albert, the SC2 machine asking price seems very right to me. I am beginning to feel that "sensational feeling" you speak of, although I am yet to have the SC2 in my grasp as of now. Shouldnt be too long I hope

I have just spoken to SCM in Sydney and Perth and they have been fantastic in terms of their interest and information they were able to provide. I have determined this SC2 is a 2002 model and has had light use. SCM even asked what the price on it is and were amazed! Joseph in Sydney said to me that in his opinion even for another $1000 it should be a good deal for a $7500 (RRP) machine. He also said most SC2's sold were single phase so this one is a little unusual....which is ironically the only negative for me at this stage. I am waiting on another call from SCM advising me of exactly what 240V motor it needs and if there are any mounting brackets or the like-they will even send me a wiring diagram. As I said their support so far is exceptional

Thanks all again. Man, am I loving this forum!
cheers
Alan

Being able to speak to the machine manufacturer and they having the ability to send you the electrical diagram and the support is something you will not have if you have gone with Jet/Carbatec, not to mention if you need parts 10 years later.

Is it possible to get 3 phase to your workshop? if you can do this then you will have a lot of really good deals! I recently bought a 4 yo 3.8m Italian panel saw (3 phase) for the 1/5 of its original list price. when I asked the local agent for the user manual they asked for the price I paid and they didnt believe me and thought I was joking.

My previous combination was single phase, most people thought it is a 3 phase because its size (2.5m slider, 410mm wide planer), but you will find odd 3 phase machines in usually single phase machine or vice versa. I prefer 3 phase.

yes Albert, it seems with the cabinets makers being screwed on prices for their work generally there is a significant attrition rate and machines become available at reasonable prices. The feedback from this forum and elsewhere convinced me that SCM produce good machines and their back up is very good

I can get 3 phase run to the workshop and I can see the benefits machinery options wise, but I am thinking the cost to do so is more than $1000. In the process, I will ask the question again to see what a firm price could be
Alan