Thread: Will Screwing Into End Grain Be Alright?

Screws? SCREWS? we don't use screws here.

Only kidding. Someone who actually knows something will no doubt be along shortly.

Screws in endgrain may be a problem. If you want to use screws do this: in the board where screws will enter the endgrain mark the positions of the screws, then a distance back from the end (say 1/2") drill holes through the side of the boards at each screw station and insert a dowel. The dowel provides a bit of long grain for the screw to enter. Alternatively you could just skew nail it all.

What is it actually that you want to screw together.
If you have doveled and glued the pieces together, that should be enough.
Cheers
Wolffie

What about predrilling holes, putting plugs in then screw into the plugs ?

Originally Posted by Ozziespur

What about predrilling holes, putting plugs in then screw into the plugs ?

That would still be endgrain unless the holes are drilled sideways.
Cheers
Wolffie

Originally Posted by mic-d

Screws in endgrain may be a problem. If you want to use screws do this: in the board where screws will enter the endgrain mark the positions of the screws, then a distance back from the end (say 1/2") drill holes through the side of the boards at each screw station and insert a dowel. The dowel provides a bit of long grain for the screw to enter. Alternatively you could just skew nail it all.

I have used this method as suggested by mic-d in the past to repair some cheapo desk drawers. It worked OK!

I saw that inserting a dowel trick when googling around. I wondered if it was deemed practicable in a board only 15mm thick. Dowelling used in board like that is only 8mm. So using that same dowel there's only 8mm of sidegrain purchase added.

The posts I saw suggested a blind dowel - not going right through, doubtless for appearances sake. I doubt I'd be putting a blind dowel in a 15mm board.

And going right through there'd be two screws, hence corresponding dowels, in each 90mm wide board, being six of them up the side of each corner.

Makes the whole thing look a bit silly? Too much fussy work for the job?

And I wondered about the long thin screws we get nowadays. I have here, for instance, some 65mm 10gauge chipboard screws. The thread on them is very pronounced as you doubtless all know. For the sake of catching in crumbly chipboard, I guess. Well it'd serve to also catch well in the endgrain of pine I'd surmise.

And I mentioned the overall size of the thing because I was thinking maybe that would have a bearing on the question. A small box cannot contain too much weight.

And this is a question of fastening the sides together, not fastening the bottom on. So the weight in the box is not going to pull the bottom off - it's only the sideways component of the weight trying to push the sides apart that we're worried about.... which wouldn't tbe great.

So I was thinking that someone accustomed to this kind of thing would be able to pronounce at a glance something after the style of either:

whatever the box, never, ever screw into long grain without some special assistance for grip...

or:

in a box that size unless you're going to put lead weights in it and throw it around good long screws should be good enough.

Originally Posted by abrogard

I saw that inserting a dowel trick when googling around. I wondered if it was deemed practicable in a board only 15mm thick. Dowelling used in board like that is only 8mm. So using that same dowel there's only 8mm of sidegrain purchase added.

The posts I saw suggested a blind dowel - not going right through, doubtless for appearances sake. I doubt I'd be putting a blind dowel in a 15mm board.

And going right through there'd be two screws, hence corresponding dowels, in each 90mm wide board, being six of them up the side of each corner.

Makes the whole thing look a bit silly? Too much fussy work for the job?

And I wondered about the long thin screws we get nowadays. I have here, for instance, some 65mm 10gauge chipboard screws. The thread on them is very pronounced as you doubtless all know. For the sake of catching in crumbly chipboard, I guess. Well it'd serve to also catch well in the endgrain of pine I'd surmise.

And I mentioned the overall size of the thing because I was thinking maybe that would have a bearing on the question. A small box cannot contain too much weight.

And this is a question of fastening the sides together, not fastening the bottom on. So the weight in the box is not going to pull the bottom off - it's only the sideways component of the weight trying to push the sides apart that we're worried about.... which wouldn't tbe great.

So I was thinking that someone accustomed to this kind of thing would be able to pronounce at a glance something after the style of either:

whatever the box, never, ever screw into long grain without some special assistance for grip...

or:

in a box that size unless you're going to put lead weights in it and throw it around good long screws should be good enough.

I thought I did
I don't understand the first half of your post at all

What is the box going to be used for? tissues or lead sinkers?

Dowels - you can put in bigger than 8mm but 8mm will do if you use an 8g screw.

You can use long screws if you want, but you must glue it too, in fact I'd be gluing it in any method, and because it's end grain, you want to use plenty because end grain will soak it up and leave a dry joint, best to put on some pva, wait a short while and put on another coat.
You can even skew the screws too and counterbore them so you can plug the holes with a wooden plug.
What is the base made from and what are your ideas for fitting it?

Cheers
Michael

Thanks for the reply, Michael.

Yes, I'm a bit lost here, too. Don't know what your 'I thought I did..' applies to.

And I'll explain the 'first half' of the post except I'm not sure where/how/what. I can guess what ' the first half ' is but what needs explaining? 8mm of purchase? 'Blind' dowel? Or '6 screws' ?

Perhaps better forget it all.

I think perhaps you're talking cabinet making level carpentry and I'm talking novice first attempt and that's perhaps a cause of confusion.

Because counterbore, skew and plug. Isn't that a bit clever in 15mm board? for a clumsy beginner?

Though I can see a skewed screw would give far more purchase.

I saw a picture on the side of my packet of dowels. Showing a corner butt joint - i.e. end grain butted up on side grain. Dowelled. They're suggesting it be dowelled.

What do you think of that? I dowel the corners?

Originally Posted by abrogard

What do you think of that? I dowel the corners?

I must have misunderstood you.
I was under the impression you had already doweled the box.
If not, then I don't understand your problem with the end grain.
If you have doweled and glued then why the screws?

Cheers
Wolffie

I still don't understand.
However, I suggest you go down to, say, Mitre10 and buy a length of timber angle like the builders use on external corners.
I presume your box is to be painted, so paint the box and the angle first if they are to be in contrasting colours.
If not, then glue the angle on, strap the box together and leave it to dry then paint.
Then your box would look nice and will stay together as long as you do not stuff it really tight with something and you can say
"I made it myself!!!"
Cheers
Wolffie

I know so little about the whole carpentry/building scene I don't know what that is: '..timber angle like builders use...'

And I think maybe it is not relevant, really. All I asked about was screwing into end grain.

What I said was:
" 15mm x 90mm x 350mm pieces dowelled together to make sides and bottom. "

and what I meant by that was that the sides and bottom were made of pieces dowelled together. Nothing about fixing the sides to each other and to the bottom.

They are not fixed.

That's the point.

How to fix them.


My thinking - being a non-carpenter novice - has been

1. I want to make a box. About 300mm deep, 300mm wide, long.

2. I don't have any wood (sides, base) that size.

3. I'll make some wood (sides, base) that size by dowelling together these boards.

4. Now I'll screw it all (sides, base) together.

5. Hang on... what about screwing into end grain.. looks a little dodgy...

That's what brought me here.

My simple little mind.

Believe it or not it never occurred to me that I should do the whole job with dowels.

But perhaps that's it. Is that it? Just dowel everything? A stronger join into end grain than screws?

Okay. No problem.

Thanks for the help.

No don't dowel it, dowels will not be strong for this application. Just screw it with the chipboard screws you mentioned - keep it simple. Make the base big enough to rest on the sides and just screw it or practise some skew nailing. Don't glue the base on if you are using solid wood, the seasonal movement may either split the base or open the sides up. without the glue the base will be able to move on the nails or screws a little bit. It'll be plenty strong enough.

If you put your screws in at a hell of an angle they will be going into longer grain rather than straight end grain. You would have to drive the heads well in and they wont finish flush with the surface so will need filler.