Thread: Simple Question - Corners

Grab/find some old antennas [some long and some short] from dead radio/stereo units I find these ideal for measuring diagonals or fitting internal shelves etc into spaces where getting a tape/ruler in is difficult or impossible.

Forgot to mention - don't remove the "fat bit" on the end as you will have a problem with the end disappearing down the antenna - if you want/need pointy bits - Bic biro caps glued onto both ends will give you points if that is what you want.

Originally Posted by Bob38S

Grab/find some old antennas [some long and some short] from dead radio/stereo units I find these ideal for measuring diagonals or fitting internal shelves etc into spaces where getting a tape/ruler in is difficult or impossible.

That's a good idea. I usually use a length of thin dowel sharpened at one end but then found I've used it up when I need it.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by icor1031

Derek,

I'll consider making something like that.

Most likely I will say many different sizes of boxes. From 6" to 30"+.

Is there anything that would be a 'one size fits all?'

Thanks, I don't mean to be a pain.

OK, I've just thought of a way to do this using the large jig above.

Drill a series of large holes (perhaps with a holesaw) at regular intervals both vertically and horizontally in the sides of the jig. The sides should look a little like Swiss cheese.

The aim is to be able to thread a clamp through the hole so that the side of the jig is at the ideal height for whatever size box you are using.

I would also drill a couple of holes through the base of the jig, close to the walls, so that you could clamp from the underside as well.

Note that the aim of this jig is to do away with the need to check any dimensions - that is, once the box/draw'etc is placed in it and clamped down, you are assured of perfect square. It is a criteria that you work accurately - opposing sides must be equal. Anything less than exact and this is not fine woodworking.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by icor1031

Malb, it's square - not rectangular.

But then again a square is a rectangle with all four sides equal in length, so the information is still valid.

I used the term rectangle as that is more general and avoids the semantics of how small an error in the length of a pair of sides needs to be to allow the item to still be considered a square, is it 1% of the side length, 1/64th inch ?

If your sides are tall as you might be suggesting, the diagonal method is very good as you can use it at the top and bottom ends of the box, possibly with different results if the ends are not exactly square cut, or there is any warpage in the material.

Fairwinds,
When I had my cabinet shop I had benches that were 900mm wide by 2400 long by 175 high for box assembly. I cut rabbits or dado's in the sides so the bottom and the back were insets.
I built a V shaped holder such that the supports were at a 45 to the table. I could drop a side panel into it, slide the bottom into the rabbit, drop the back into its rabbit or dado and pin nailed them together. Pick the three pieces up and rotate them to add the other side and the top stretchers.
I glued all the rabbits first of course.
A little later I put hot melt glue in three spots in each dado and the rest was Titbond. The hot melt would hold everything together until the Titebond dried.
If I had to stain the inside of the box I either use prefinished material or I sprayed it on the flat after it was cut to size.
Just my way of doing things.
regards
Joe

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Note that the aim of this jig is to do away with the need to check any dimensions - that is, once the box/draw'etc is placed in it and clamped down, you are assured of perfect square. It is a criteria that you work accurately - opposing sides must be equal.

Anything less than exact and this is not fine woodworking.

Regards from Perth
Derek

I'm glad you brought this up Derek (no sarcasm intended) and I hope you will forgive my changing your emphasis. It made me think. However, two points relating to this thread:
1) Many of us on these forums merely aspire to fine woodworking, for us perfection is an asymptote to our learning curve.
2) The nature of the material and its expense means that we have to live with our mistakes, and make them we do.

Because of the above I would argue that for many of us the measurement of diagonals is the best way to minimise the effects of our mistakes/lack of skill.

A third point, which deserves a separate thread rather than hijacking this one, is what actually is fine woodworking. I'll try and start one to see where the fur flies
Cheers,
Jim

1) Many of us on these forums merely aspire to fine woodworking, for us perfection is an asymptote to our learning curve.
2) The nature of the material and its expense means that we have to live with our mistakes, and make them we do.

Hi Jim

Somehow we need to find a way, on the one hand, of recognising that "perfection" is a destination - perhaps achievable, perhaps not. And on the other hand we need to support the efforts of all by recognising that we all make errors and the journey is rarely a smooth path for even accomplished woodworkers.

Over the past year or so I have posted many of my experiences that chronicle not only my successes but also my failures. I have been concerned that many woodworkers are intimidated by the expected apparent ease with which joints are cut and furniture is built. My posts are intended to draw out the reality here, such as (currently) the time it takes to build a drawer.

I have learned a lot from the exchanges of ideas, where there are constructive critiques and information supplied. These are good topics. And I believe that they will encourage many along a path to do the best work they can.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Hi Jim

Somehow we need to find a way, on the one hand, of recognising that "perfection" is a destination - perhaps achievable, perhaps not. And on the other hand we need to support the efforts of all by recognising that we all make errors and the journey is rarely a smooth path for even accomplished woodworkers.

********
Regards from Perth

Derek

Good Morning Jim, Derek & All

I would like to endorse Derek's above sentiments and mention how consistently Derek has applied his philosophy over the years. On many occasions I have sought assistance, and made some less considered comments, and have been consistently and gently prodded on the journey. Thanks Derek.

For my own kitchen cabinet assembly template, I am about to start building a version of Derek's "swiss-cheese corners template" - its slightly more complex than I envisaged, but stiffer and probably more accurate and versatile over the years, and easier to clamp. Easiest is not always best.

Fair Winds

Graeme

Fair comment Graeme. Habits of a lifetime are hard to break and I think that if I had a jig like Derek's I would still be checking diagonals just in case
A craftsman I knew was laughing about his apprenticeship and how he was treated when he made suggestions that would speed things up or make the job easier. He was told that when he had his papers he could use whatever methods he liked. He said that they knew damn well that when that time came their methods would be so engrained in him that it would be hard to change them.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by jimbur

Fair comment Graeme. Habits of a lifetime are hard to break and I think that if I had a jig like Derek's I would still be checking diagonals just in case

Me, too, Jim.

A craftsman I knew was laughing about his apprenticeship and how he was treated when he made suggestions that would speed things up or make the job easier. He was told that when he had his papers he could use whatever methods he liked. He said that they knew damn well that when that time came their methods would be so engrained in him that it would be hard to change them.
Cheers,
Jim

Yeah, I have a mate, a Navy veteran, with similar views; a favourite saying is:
"There is a right way, a wrong way, the Navy way, and my way. We do it my way..."

Fair Winds

Graeme