Thread: Skirt + Tabletop = Table (but how...)

No screws at all?

Here is an idea but it needs screws.
http://www.doityourself.com/stry/buildtableassembly

No Sir, not a one.

I suppose as a last resort cutting a kerf and using the mirror holders (pegged through the table top) would be OK, but I am still trying to firgure out the 'colonial' way of doing it. It doesn't matter if the dowels show through the table top in attaching the mirror holders, but it just seems like a bunch o' work. Cutting the kerf and installing the holders with what I have to work with (a finished and joined skirt) seems like quite a mountain to climb.

It's got me thinking, though...

Cut a kerf around the apron and make largish wooden buttons... about an 1" square or so to get plenty of glue-up area.

They'll do the same job as Cliff suggested and provided they're securely clamped for gluing will be strong enough if you put one every 8"-12" or so. After all, a properly glued joint is usually stronger than the wood...

Pegging 'em is, IMHO, pointless as it wouldn't add any real structural strength and is mainly side-to-end-grain gluing anyway. Just don't push the buttons all the way into the kerf, so the top can shrink if it wants without stressing the glue joints.

I preface this by pointing out that I dont know much but I have this idea.
If you are serious about using only wood, would this work?
Peg a length of timber along under the top, parrallel to each long side of the skirt i.e. pegs will be vertical.
Position it so it will fit inside the skirt when the top is put on leaving a small gap between them for sidways expansion.
Then peg the parralel "skirts" together.i.e. pegs will be horizontal.
That way the expansion across will be allowed for and the expansion along will not be a problem as they will expand together.

Originally Posted by Skew ChiDAMN!!

Cut a kerf around the apron and make largish wooden buttons... about an 1" square or so to get plenty of glue-up area.

They'll do the same job as Cliff suggested and provided they're securely clamped for gluing will be strong enough if you put one every 8"-12" or so. After all, a properly glued joint is usually stronger than the wood...

Pegging 'em is, IMHO, pointless as it wouldn't add any real structural strength and is mainly side-to-end-grain gluing anyway. Just don't push the buttons all the way into the kerf, so the top can shrink if it wants without stressing the glue joints.

Yep, I agree... Like this, only glued if you don't want the screws.

Cheers
Michael

Well, it's now 9am here, breakfast is long over, and I've got to move forward on the table. Looks like there will be some kerf-cutting today and some clamping and some gluing. Many thanks, folks. I'll let you know how it turns out...

Originally Posted by kvanlaan

Well, it's now 9am here, breakfast is long over, and I've got to move forward on the table. Looks like there will be some kerf-cutting today and some clamping and some gluing. Many thanks, folks. I'll let you know how it turns out...

Kvanlaan, shame on you! You are in the home of fixing table tops without metal fittings and the solution to your problem is all around you!
Seriously though, Chinese joinery has had this sorted out for a couple of thousand years. There are a couple of methods but they will depend on the thickness of your table top. Most Chinese tables have an extra apron but I have seen the following done with thinner tops.
Cut a mortice into the underside of the tabletop so that it's outer edge aligns with the inside of the apron, glue or pin a tenon into that mortice and then pin the exposed end of the tenon into the apron. If the top isn't thick enough to do a blind tenon into the table top then I suggest you think about through tenons that will be seen on the top of the table. If you go this way then cut a through mortice located as above, push the tenon through and pin it to the apron, clamp the apron and top together, pin and/or glue the tenon into the table top (glue only is fine) and, when the glue is set, plane the tenon down level with the table top.
Good luck, Fletty
PS, I love Tianjin .... in spring!!

Originally Posted by fletty

Cut a mortice into the underside of the tabletop so that it's outer edge aligns with the inside of the apron, glue or pin a tenon into that mortice and then pin the exposed end of the tenon into the apron.

Just a question on this method... If the tenon is fixed to both the tabletop and the apron, then how does it allow for cross-grain movement of the tabletop?

Cheers
Michael

Fletty, thanks for that (but I don't quite follow). I have the same question as Michael. Luckily, I didn't get around to the kerfing and clamping, I went looking for quality tabletop wood.

Today, I found three 4m x 33cm pine planks (about 4-5cm thick, pretty rough cut) for $12.50 USD each - not too shabby! Tomorrow is tabletop day, then to the mortising and tenoning (if I can figure out what you mean.) I haven't seen any examples of what you describe here - it's all metal fittings and formica from what I've seen...

Cheers!

PS - Tianjin is beautiful in the spring - it's just plain dirty (from all the construction) with nice weather. In summer it's hot and dirty and in winter it's cold and dirty.

PPS - yes, shame on me, but I'm admittedly a handyman, not a craftsman!

Originally Posted by mic-d

Just a question on this method... If the tenon is fixed to both the tabletop and the apron, then how does it allow for cross-grain movement of the tabletop?

Cheers
Michael

Kavlaan and MicD,
Sorry, my rushed reply didn't explain well enough, I was hoping to give Kavlaan another choice before he started cutting timber. I've checked my Chinese tables and ...

• they all have a mitred frame around the table top
• the mitres have through tenons with the tenons placed so that they restrict movement in the 'across' direction
• some have pins into the structure above the legs AND near the middle of the aprons and ...
• some only have dowels at roughly the third points along the apron

this means that they rely upon the mitred frame to 'contain' the table movement OR rely on the aprons bowing outward if the table top expands.
Hope this helps, no offence intended Kavlaan.
I've only been in Tianjin in winter and summer, respectively far too cold and far too hot ... so I figured spring would be OK!
Fletty

oops, sorry, Kvanlaan and mic-d,
Fletty

Fletty, thanks for the note and the more detailed description..

First of all, no offense taken! I am blissfully ignorant of many things, this topic included. Just muddling along...and enjoying myself while trying to learn a little here and there. I will be the first to admit that when it comes to furniture construction, I know little, if anything. However, we've got 5 children, (and looking to adopt a few more) and since the Chinese family unit is no more than three, there are no tables for sale that fit our needs here. I figured, hey, how tough can it be to make a table? And here I am!

Also, just wondering: Why on earth would you come to Tianjin? It is not a tourist destination by any stretch of the word (heavy industry, lots of pollution). Those who come don't usually stay, as there is not much holding anyone here (though we've been here 10 years.)

All that being said, I think I will be going for the kerf/gluing solution to the problem, as it is much less technical and still gives me a nail-free table...

You could use the same principle as a normal table button and instead of screwing to the table have a slightly tapered sliding dovetail with a mortice as an entry. Similar to attaching the tops to hutches

I know it's a LONG way from us both, but in the Tower Of London, there is a big Oak table, and the method of construction (vis-a-vis top attachment) was to cut a bloody big dovetail socket across the full width of the table top, and have the support with the dovetail spline simply slid into it. The top would have been plenty heavy enough to prevent accidental movement (assuming it wasn't fixed at all). It would make it a LOT easier to move if it was a big table also.
If you're worried about seasonal variations, I'd be wary of the end-caps altogether; I suspect they are only truly successful in kiln-dried timber maintained in a controlled environment. Admittedly, the challenge of finishing off end-grain to your own satisfaction may need to be taken into consideration.
Best of luck whichever way it goes...

Bill