Squeaking Floor Board help please!!!!

[rwbuild]

Particle sheet board flooring directly on to joists and painted, there are sheet joins every 900mm.

Typical problem from sheet flooring from about 15+years ago when it was standard practice to nail down with either 75 x 3.75 bullet head nails or flat head gun nails. Liquid nails of that vintage only had an effective life of about 10 yrs after which time normal climatic changes and normal house hold traffic also contributed to fracturing of the glue because it became very brittle. In this instance, was liqued nails even used and if so, was it applied correctly. Another possible cause relates to how long was the laid floor exposed to the elements before it was weather proof. Also, carpenters who had little experience and correct training usually didn't nail in a dovetail pattern which increased the mechanical advantage by at least 3 times the amount of a vertical nail. In addition, nails of that vintage were not ring shanked and the sheet flooring would eventually slip on the nails.

The current BCA standard calls for all sheet flooring to be screwed.

A competent carpenter should be able to measure from a datum the floor joist layout relative to up stairs and be able to fix the floor down as I have suggested.

[Marion W]

Particle sheet board flooring directly on to joists and painted, there are sheet joins every 900mm.

Typical problem from sheet flooring from about 15+years ago when it was standard practice to nail down with either 75 x 3.75 bullet head nails or flat head gun nails. Liquid nails of that vintage only had an effective life of about 10 yrs after which time normal climatic changes and normal house hold traffic also contributed to fracturing of the glue because it became very brittle. In this instance, was liqued nails even used and if so, was it applied correctly. Another possible cause relates to how long was the laid floor exposed to the elements before it was weather proof. Also, carpenters who had little experience and correct training usually didn't nail in a dovetail pattern which increased the mechanical advantage by at least 3 times the amount of a vertical nail. In addition, nails of that vintage were not ring shanked and the sheet flooring would eventually slip on the nails.

The current BCA standard calls for all sheet flooring to be screwed.

A competent carpenter should be able to measure from a datum the floor joist layout relative to up stairs and be able to fix the floor down as I have suggested.

We were the third owners of the home so have no idea about the build. It was originally a Brian Burke home (not the renowned ex Premier but another man of the same name) who was a well known builder of these types of homes. You are now going into areas that are not just foreign but alien to me!!! Finding a carpenter in this area who knows about this problem is harder then hen's teeth and needles and haystacks!! I feel I am just going to have to tell the Agent that if they don't like talking floorboards then I shan't be moving. Thanks again for your interest and help.

[Glennet]

We were the third owners of the home so have no idea about the build. It was originally a Brian Burke home (not the renowned ex Premier but another man of the same name) who was a well known builder of these types of homes. You are now going into areas that are not just foreign but alien to me!!! Finding a carpenter in this area who knows about this problem is harder then hen's teeth and needles and haystacks!! I feel I am just going to have to tell the Agent that if they don't like talking floorboards then I shan't be moving. Thanks again for your interest and help.

When we were selling our house the agents picked on things like that, and as soon as we fixed one they found something else. It may be just about softening you up to accept a lower price.

[ian]

it can be fixed by using a nail gun (fitout, not framing) set the depth adjuster to maximum and shoot straight through the carpet into the floor and joist again at an angle off vertical.

A competent carpenter should be able to measure from a datum the floor joist layout relative to up stairs and be able to fix the floor down as I have suggested.

Hi Marion

Does the entire upstairs floor squeak, or is it just in a few places?

as rwbuild has suggested, a competent carpenter should be able to fix the squeak in not very long at all WITHOUT lifting the carpet. From rwbuild's advice, it will take longer to set out where the joists are than it will to drive enough new nails to stop the squeak.


Perhaps the best way to find a competent carpenter is to find out which of your local real estate agents has the largest portfolio of rental houses.
That agent will have one or two "competent" handymen / carpenters who do the maintenance work for them.
When the maintenance person volunteers a fix as described by rwbuild, you should have a competent one.

[rwbuild]

Ian, the intent is to measure where the floor joists are where it squeaks, this needs to be done so when it is fixed no nails or screws will be seen underneath. The sheet flooring acts as a ceiling for the downstairs rooms.

[justonething]

Marion
I'm a little bit confused about what kind of flooring is underneath the carpet. Are they floor boards or are they particle boards? If they are wooden floor boards, then this product from the amazon would work. Wherever the floor squeaks, using the jig supplied, you screw down the fastener directly through the carpet, the floor boards and onto the joists below and then snap off the heads at their predetermined "spots". If the flooring is made of particle boards, then they only tend to work while you put it in and but the particle boards around where the screws are applied tend to crumble in a short while and they no longer work again so they are not the right solution. And we have to find some other ways. Finding out exactly where the joists are would be a bit of a challenge, but by first detecting them from underneath using a stud sensor and then work back to the corresponding location from above should do the trick, plus you have the squeaks to guide you.

[Marion W]

When we were selling our house the agents picked on things like that, and as soon as we fixed one they found something else. It may be just about softening you up to accept a lower price.

I agree Glennet - although this is one item she picked up before listing - she mentioned that it had been an issue with a couple of other homes that she knew about but she is under no illusion about the price - the bottom margin is literally rock bottom - any lower and I can't afford to move so it was listed at a realistic price (under what I would have liked but I have to be realistic as well). The noise cold be considered as a potential problem if people have not experienced the "talking floorboards" before!

[Marion W]

Marion
I'm a little bit confused about what kind of flooring is underneath the carpet. Are they floor boards or are they particle boards? If they are wooden floor boards, then this product from the amazon would work. Wherever the floor squeaks, using the jig supplied, you screw down the fastener directly through the carpet, the floor boards and onto the joists below and then snap off the heads at their predetermined "spots". If the flooring is made of particle boards, then they only tend to work while you put it in and but the particle boards around where the screws are applied tend to crumble in a short while and they no longer work again so they are not the right solution. And we have to find some other ways. Finding out exactly where the joists are would be a bit of a challenge, but by first detecting them from underneath using a stud sensor and then work back to the corresponding location from above should do the trick, plus you have the squeaks to guide you.

OK - I have done some firkling around trying to find a piece of carpet that is loose - managed to find a bit at the stair edge and from what I can see it is not floor boards but some kind of particle board - (should I take a photo?). Can you buy stud sensors? That product is the one I was looking at but it is in the USA as far as I can see - if you think it might work (even only temporarily!!!) I might have to invest in it and wait for it to arrive then find someone with a drill (think I sold all of my husbands as I am not a dab hand at drilling!)

Thank you for that help - we may be progressing!

[Marion W]

Hi Marion

Does the entire upstairs floor squeak, or is it just in a few places?

as rwbuild has suggested, a competent carpenter should be able to fix the squeak in not very long at all WITHOUT lifting the carpet. From rwbuild's advice, it will take longer to set out where the joists are than it will to drive enough new nails to stop the squeak.


Perhaps the best way to find a competent carpenter is to find out which of your local real estate agents has the largest portfolio of rental houses.
That agent will have one or two "competent" handymen / carpenters who do the maintenance work for them.
When the maintenance person volunteers a fix as described by rwbuild, you should have a competent one.

Hi Ian,

The floor squeaks in a few places but one or two are worse - it would be nice to get those done at last! Competent carpenter and Mandurah don't fit into the same sentence it seems - I have contacted two or three and they have suggested lifting the carpet!

[rustynail]

Particle board flooring usually squeaks along the plastic tongue. The manufacturers now recommend gluing in the tongue groove and along the joist tops. In the early days of this type of flooring only joist gluing was recommended. If it does seem to be in the joint between sheets and these joints are open enough to allow flooring adhesive to be squirted in, this may be your best approach. Failing that and the joints are too tight, a liberal sprinkling of talc powder and a thorough sweep in would be the next option.
I cant imagine any of the above being possible without lifting the carpet unfortunately.

[ian]

If I've understood Marion correctly, she is seeking a solution that
1. will last long enough that the squeak doesn't return till after the new owners move in.
2. doesn't require the carpet to be replaced, or completely lifted and relaid
3. allows her to achieve a quick sale at a price which will allow her to move on with her life.

rwbuild has suggested that the particle board flooring can be re-nailed or screwed through the carpet -- which sounds like a winner to me.

[nrb]

If you can get under the floor in the problem areas a fix can be done as suggested by others before.
If not and you have to work from the top that is another challenge,you can locate the joists by lifting the edge of the carpet,previous answers have addressed how to
I have the same issue and did not want to lift the carpet,screw then have the carpet relayed
I bought from the USA a system called SQEEEEK NO MORE---did it fix it NO waste of money
I feel that in the states a lot of flooring is ply while here most of ours are chipboard
I contacted the people I bought from but am still waiting for reply

[rwbuild]

If the squek can be narrowed down to the jpon between the sheets with plastic tongue as Rustynail has said, a counter sunk head screw from underneath IN THE Join will lock the sheets relative to each other and a dab of ceiling paint will hide the screw after the slot in the screw has been filled

[Marion W]

If I've understood Marion correctly, she is seeking a solution that
1. will last long enough that the squeak doesn't return till after the new owners move in.
2. doesn't require the carpet to be replaced, or completely lifted and relaid
3. allows her to achieve a quick sale at a price which will allow her to move on with her life.

rwbuild has suggested that the particle board flooring can be re-nailed or screwed through the carpet -- which sounds like a winner to me.

Ian,
You have nailed it perfectly thank you (oh - sorry pun not intended).
I am quite sure it is not a major problem it has been there for years but we were just used to it. I truly cannot remember if it was the same when we bought it but I am positive it is not a structural problem otherwise he would have been on to it long ago!

Thank you for the suggestions - will work on the product on Amazon.

Marion

[Marion W]

If you can get under the floor in the problem areas a fix can be done as suggested by others before.
If not and you have to work from the top that is another challenge,you can locate the joists by lifting the edge of the carpet,previous answers have addressed how to
I have the same issue and did not want to lift the carpet,screw then have the carpet relayed
I bought from the USA a system called SQEEEEK NO MORE---did it fix it NO waste of money
I feel that in the states a lot of flooring is ply while here most of ours are chipboard
I contacted the people I bought from but am still waiting for reply

Thank you - yes I have the link for that product so it might be worth a try - only minimum outlay compared to several hundred $ Thank you for the info - appreciated.