Thread: Table saw which one, laguna, sawstop and hammar

Originally Posted by rrich

I have a Delta 3HP cabinet saw. The electricity was a PITA but I did it myself. (We can do that here)

At school I was part of the team that installed 8 (IIRC) 5 HP industrial model (cabinet) SawStop saws. The quality was very impressive as was the fit and finish.

If I were to buy another table saw it would be difficult to not buy a SawStop.

I know of somebody that has a contractor model SawStop. He has experienced two blade drops. (About $200 each depending upon blade quality.) By his own admission, the blade drops did not involve flesh but rather stupidity. Therein lies the unspoken problem with SawStop.

It seems that SawStop owners tend to get a bit careless and when they go to another saw they are more accident prone. In a conversation with an instructor at school who has a similar home shop, we both agreed that we wouldn't allow a SawStop owner to use our table saws.

To the point, a neighbor who had taken a couple of woodworking classes at the local adult high school was using my saw. I had to shut the saw off a couple of times to correct her technique for safety. Finally I got to the point where I felt that her technique was safe. The next day she comes over to make a few cuts. She nicked her finger, nothing serious but her comment terrified me. "Oh, I cut myself. Why didn't the blade drop?" She is not welcome to use my saw anymore.

There is an additional saw with flesh sensing technology, Bosch. It is only available in a job site model but if you're not intending to rip 12/4 timber or cut sheet goods it is a good saw. Here in the US SawStop (Stephen Gass) and Bosch are involved in a Federal Court Urination contest. The sale of the Bosch has been stopped here at least until the court case is resolved. I've read both of the Gass patents. IMNSHO Gass will win the case.

I know of somebody that built a cabinet around a Bosch job site saw that gives good dust collection and the wide table top functionality of a cabinet saw. It works well for him.

Very interesting point rrich. Thanks.

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Thanks for the comments guys. So im still waiting for quote to come back for k3 basic... depending on the price im happy to wait to save a little more money. I hope to sitting down . Theres a 20 week leadtime on a unit from hammar. So we'll see.

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If you're considering the K3 you'd be foolish to not throw the minimax sc2 into the mix. It's competitive on spec, with a bit more slider travel (1660mm) and 900mm on the rip fence than the K3 basic. SCM are competitive with Felder price wise and in build quality.

Woodyo,

I'm in a similiar position. I really like the Laguna Fusion - its highlights for me are the great anti-kickback fingers on the blade guard, and the blade guard itself.

I started a similar thread (Fusion v Harvey) a few weeks back, and someone suggested the Harvey HW110LGE-30. Its 3HP compared to the Fusion's 2HP, and build wise it looks the same quality. The blade guard looks very ordinary compared to Fusions. From https://www.bbta.com.au/harvey-hw110lge-30-table-saw/ its about the same price as the Fusion. I'm now leaning to the Harvey... I'll probably find something else though and change my mind again.

For the money SawStop is asking, you better off paying a little bit more and get yourself a slider saw such as Minimax or Hammer or Robland

Yes, SawStop is safe, but I personally wont buy it. I will only buy it if technology like this is fitted to all of my machinery.

I like to pay my panel saw the full respect while I am using my panel saw or any of my machinery.

Bottom line is, if you need the this technology to keep you safe from using a table saw, you are likely to injure yourself while operating any other machinery.

For what it's worth, I'm researching a table saw myself.

For what little I know at this stage, just researching price to determine what is and isn't in the mix, I found the Harvey (basically same as your Laguna) at $2600, the SawStop Professional at $4200, and a Hammer K3 Comfort I have been quoted around $8800.

Like you, I'm now trying to figure out which of the three to buy - though the Hammer might be off the list (it's a lot to drop on the first table saw and first major piece of woodworking kit for me).

At the same stage, once my tax return comes in I'll likely get the Harvey. Seems to be hugely well liked considering the price, the saw stop tech would be nice but it's a bit rich asking nearly 2x the price for it.

At some stage, I would like a new tablesaw as well. Why when my 20-year old Carbatec 3hp (upgraded motor) does apparently fine duty? Well, it is rather clunky. The best thing about it is the sliding table. It is built like a brick dunny (I wonder if I can transfer it to another saw?). It cuts straight, both at 45- and 90 degrees. Cross cuts like a dream with the slider ..... what more does one really want in a tablesaw?

By the way, I only work with solid wood. No MDF or ply sheets.

So why change it, indeed? I think that this is the question that needs to be answered in choosing among the machines on offer here.

Does build quality matter? Well .. yes. Not the carcase - I don't care about that as long as it is rigid and does not vibrate at all. Mine does not (especially since it is full of sawdust!). The biggest issue I have is that the blade adjustments are really poor. They adjust, but with effort and without calibration. Up-and-down is clunky, as is angling. Still, it gets there.

What is the fence like? I have a copy of the Biesemeyer. I've tuned it several times (like the tablesaw!), and it works quite well, adjusts to position and holds it. Overall, it is the second best feature of the machine (the best feature is the slider).

Power? The saw originally came with 2hp. It now has 3 hp. Night and day. That was an important upgrade. Don't waste your time with under 3 hp. This machine uses 12" blades, and the depth of cut is good. Power is needed to drive this through our local hardwoods.

Noise? Its noisy. Aren't they all? I do like quiet. Is there one?

Dust collection. Mine is really poor at this. Well what do you expect from a contractor saw. Good dust collection is a must. Which of these saws does that well? I can do without a tablesaw having the thickest steel in its build, but my next saw must have the ability to collect dust very well - tablesaws really spray it around.

Size? Last but not least. This is relevant. My space is limited. I want a slider facility and there is no need for more than about 30-35" between saw and fence. I have about 50" at present and it is unnecessary. It takes up valuable space. How do these saws use space: efficiently or not?

I hope this helps. I'd like to know how the tablesaws under scrutiny stack up.

Regards from Perth

Derek (for the record, other machines include a Hammer A3-31 planer-thicknesser and N4400 bandsaw)

I would definitely look at the Minimax, they were way better value when I bought my K3 but I did not realise they were available in this country at that time.

https://iwoodlike.com/products/machinery/panel-saw

Originally Posted by I_wanna_Shed

Woodyo,

I'm in a similiar position. I really like the Laguna Fusion - its highlights for me are the great anti-kickback fingers on the blade guard, and the blade guard itself.

I started a similar thread (Fusion v Harvey) a few weeks back, and someone suggested the Harvey HW110LGE-30. Its 3HP compared to the Fusion's 2HP, and build wise it looks the same quality. The blade guard looks very ordinary compared to Fusions. From https://www.bbta.com.au/harvey-hw110lge-30-table-saw/ its about the same price as the Fusion. I'm now leaning to the Harvey... I'll probably find something else though and change my mind again.

The Fusion is a step below the Harvey 110GLE30 ... the direct Laguna comparison is the Laguna Premium ... it has the same configuration as the Harvey ... but maybe a better fence and blade guard on the Premium.

Rob

Originally Posted by I_wanna_Shed

Woodyo,

I'm in a similiar position. I really like the Laguna Fusion - its highlights for me are the great anti-kickback fingers on the blade guard, and the blade guard itself.

I started a similar thread (Fusion v Harvey) a few weeks back, and someone suggested the Harvey HW110LGE-30. Its 3HP compared to the Fusion's 2HP, and build wise it looks the same quality. The blade guard looks very ordinary compared to Fusions. From https://www.bbta.com.au/harvey-hw110lge-30-table-saw/ its about the same price as the Fusion. I'm now leaning to the Harvey... I'll probably find something else though and change my mind again.

Now thats another nice looking machine. I think id opt for that over the laguna fusion. It looks more comparable to the laguna cabinet style and i like the price point and the 3hp motor.

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Originally Posted by Tahlee

The Fusion is a step below the Harvey 110GLE30 ... the direct Laguna comparison is the Laguna Premium ... it has the same configuration as the Harvey ... but maybe a better fence and blade guard on the Premium.

Rob

Fence is better on the Harvey with the aluminium extrusion vs nylon IMO. Don't know if there is any difference between blade guards but both should be replaced with better custom dust collection guards, again IMO.

Originally Posted by elanjacobs

This is precisely why I'm anti-SawStop.

Fancy electronics should never be a replacement for the basic knowledge of how to use potentially dangerous tools safely. There are millions of people around the world who have been working with spinning blades all day, every day for 40 years and still have all their fingers because they know how to stay safe. We don't need to fix perceived inherent dangers, we need to fix complacency and stupidity

Totally agree,

but if you notice the younger generation, they are easily distracted

although I'm not expert, its just what I've noticed, this could help them, maybe it'll come with an app

Complacency is something that will always happen, even for a split second, we are human.

As for Stupidity, well in hindsight, we can all claim the we have done something stupid, hopefully we can get away from it injury free.


even if you had a sawstop, the idea of thinking the brake saving your finger should never come into play, always think its dangerous, because it is.

You won't be disappointed with the Hammer. I looked at buying one a few years ago and was really impressed. They usually have 10% off in October which is a good saving.